TiWanna Kenney, Astounding Auctions

[00:00:56] Sanjay Parekh: You know when you watch a reality TV show, and you see a guest change, and feel happy for them, and then the episode ends and you’re left wondering… where are they now? Well, today we’re going to work to answer that question with one of our guests from Season 1, Episode 5 — TiWanna Kenney.

TiWanna is the founder of Astounding Auctions. She’s an Auctioneer, Fundraising Consultant, Speaker, lifelong language lover… and was born a Fast Talker. Here today to answer the question: “Where are you now?” is TiWanna Kenney. TiWanna, welcome to the show! I am super excited to have you on.

[00:01:29] TiWanna Kenney: Thank you, Sanjay. So nice to meet you and hang out with you for a little bit today.

[00:01:34] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, absolutely. So, look, some of our listeners may not have heard you when you were first on the podcast in the last season. So, it'd be great if you could give us like a little bit about your background and kind of what you're about.

[00:01:45] TiWanna Kenney: Well, I am a former 18 — year financial services professional and US Army veteran turned auctioneer.

Never would've seen it coming in life. But one day I woke up and said, I think that I should talk fast at a talent show, of all things. And it just so happened that was the moment that changed my life and career trajectory forever, because I was in a room full of people who were philanthropic and they said, You need to come and do our auction.

And I said, who, child, you don't want that to happen, because I was just kidding, but one of them roped me into it. And now here I am years later. That was in 2015. In 2018, I left corporate America, actually end of ‘18, top of 2019. And now here we are, I have been a full — time entrepreneur since the top of 2019.

[00:02:34] Sanjay Parekh: So, I want to drill in a little bit into what got you started because there's a funny parallel I'm going to tell you about in a second, but you were with Leadership Austin? Was that, is that the organization? So, you did an auction at a talent show for them?

[00:02:48] TiWanna Kenney: Yes.

[00:02:48] Sanjay Parekh: You'd never been an auctioneer before.

[00:02:50] TiWanna Kenney: Never.

[00:02:51] Sanjay Parekh: Did you do anything to prepare yourself to do this? Or did you do this kind of on the fly?

[00:02:56] TiWanna Kenney: Well, it \was a talent show and I couldn't think of any cool talents other than the fact that I spoke really fast. And so, my preparation was this big whopping sitting down, pulling out my phone, Googling, ‘what do auctioneers say?’ Reading it and then getting up there and doing it.

[00:03:12] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. So, here's the funny story. I was actually a part of Leadership Atlanta. We had to have a presentation for our nonprofit project, which was an arts group. And I didn't feel like we had a great presentation. So, I told the arts group, give me a handful of pieces and we're going to auction it off during our presentation.

And so, I watched a bunch of Google videos or YouTube videos about how to be an auctioneer. And I totally did the same thing and we raised a few thousand dollars for the organization. Compared to me, you actually took that experience and went forward and became an auctioneer. I was like, well, I'm never doing that again, ‘cause that was really hard.

So, it's awesome. So, it's been a few years now since you did the podcast. What's changed in that time with you and the business and kind of what you're doing?

[00:03:57] TiWanna Kenney: Goodness. I don't even remember what year it was Sanjay. I just remember it was the thing that made me feel super official. I'm like, I'm doing a podcast. Okay. But so much has changed. First of course, we had 2020, which shut everything down and made me say, Why did I decide to do a gig role? What is wrong with me? But you know, just like people do, we innovate. So, since the podcast, my business has grown, I am officially full time. No longer side hustling.

I am fully all the time hustling and I have learned how to grow and change course. So, when the pandemic happened and the world went on lockdown, I literally, two weeks later was in here with this microphone right here, a ring light, and an internet connection, raising money for an organization to help them create STEM and STEAM opportunities for youth.

We did a quick changeover. We got on that boat and steered it into the waters of raising money virtually, and it was janky. It was a hot mess, but we raised money and it was incredible.

[00:05:08] Sanjay Parekh: So, you made the jump before the pandemic. How much before the pandemic was it that you quit your full — time job and took the side hustle to become the main hustle?

[00:05:17] TiWanna Kenney: Early 2019, I officially walked away. So January.

[00:05:20] Sanjay Parekh: So, you had about a year under your belt before the pandemic hit. So that was probably good, I imagine, to help you kind of steady the boat and kind of figure out all the things that you wanted to do.

[00:05:31] TiWanna Kenney: Right. It was, yeah it was a good year. And then I was having some serious mirror talk.

[00:05:39] Sanjay Parekh: So, looking back now, it's been a few years since you made that. What do you think about when you made that jump now? Like, is it something you regret? Is it something that you wish you'd done earlier, later? Like what do you think about it at this point?

[00:05:52] TiWanna Kenney: It's something I wish that I had done earlier, only because I didn't know what I didn't know. And I don't think there was ever a point in my life where someone could have said, Hey, you're going to be an entrepreneur and I would've gone for it. Absolutely not. Who's an entrepreneur? Not I. I help entrepreneurs, you know, in banking, I've done that.

But for me to be one? I don't even think when I did the podcast, to be honest with you, that I felt like I was an entrepreneur. I felt like I was playing on the side and I had a real job. So, this is my real job, and this is my play job. But I wish that I had done it sooner because there's nothing like getting up and living your dream.

And this is honestly the thing that I felt like I was put here for. Not just the auctions and the fast talking, but the part of the night where I get to help everyone in the room become a philanthropist, where everyone gets to tap into what gets their heart going, what it is that makes them connect to the cause and the how, and the why, and get them to put their paddles up in the air and feel good about knowing that whatever capacity they have the ability to make an impact in, that they're able to do.

And I just facilitate it.

[00:06:51] Sanjay Parekh: I love that. But I also want to now dig in a little bit. You said you never viewed yourself as an entrepreneur. Before this, did you ever do anything that was like a side hustle as a kid? Did you sell candy bars to other kids? Like anything like that, that you have a background in?

[00:07:07] TiWanna Kenney: So, I don't know. I want to make sure no one can hear me. But, I told you I was an 18 year financial services professional. So my senior year of high school, I was working at H&R Block as a tax preparer. At 17 years old I was a tax preparer at H&R Block. What high schoolers didn't know that is if they were getting deductions taken out of their check, they can get all of that money right back, because usually their parents were claiming them.

So, I side hustled my entire senior class and was doing their taxes, 1040 — EZs that took me three minutes to do. And I was charging them like 25 bucks each and back when I graduated from high school, honey, that was more than a tank of gas, okay?

[00:07:49] Sanjay Parekh: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So, that whole view that you have of yourself not being an entrepreneur. I think you've been an entrepreneur since you were in high school. I think that's what you just told us. That is incredible.

[00:08:03] TiWanna Kenney: Never thought of it that way. Thanks for helping me unlock that.

[00:08:06] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, that is great. That is absolutely a part of your story. And now hopefully none of your high school friends are listening to this and want a refund. But hey, they thought it was a good deal at the time. So, it's fine.

[00:08:17] TiWanna Kenney: Exactly. Exactly. Great job friends. I helped you out. It's okay.

[00:08:20] Sanjay Parekh: There you go. Okay. So, let's talk about the first few years now that it's been running Astounding Auctions. What are some of the challenges that you faced and kind of, what have you learned during this time?

[00:08:31] TiWanna Kenney: Ooh, challenges. So, let's talk about first, how to market, because even though I absolutely believe in what it is that I do, I never had to market myself. I came from a corporate background. And even before that, in the Army, the Army markets the Army, you know?

[00:08:48] Sanjay Parekh: They do a really good job of marketing the Army too. They're good.

[00:08:51] TiWanna Kenney: They do. Like we remember all the slogans, like they just make them catchy. They stay in your head.

[00:08:56] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:08:56] TiWanna Kenney: And even in banking, they advertise themselves. I'm like, well, what am I supposed to do? Do I pick up the phone and call people and say, Hey, do you need an auctioneer? What does this look like?

So, I did not know what it was supposed to look like and having to figure out what felt right, also, because I'm not always the person that says, Let's do what they say you're supposed to do. I also have to be true to myself. Altruism is one of my guiding lights. And so, if it doesn't feel good, if it doesn't make sense, if it doesn't set my soul on fire, I have no desire to do it.

And I had to figure out a way to market and feel good. And what I believe in, I believe in word of mouth. And so, I created a system where my existing clients, if you can introduce me to five people who do auctions, that can benefit from my services, that would be great. And then I was like, but what do they get?

And so, I gave the non — profit a discount and then I said, but what is the motivation? If Sanjay works with a non — profit and you're referring me to five people, yes, you're happy that I am, but shouldn't I say thank you to Sanjay also? Shouldn't I do something for you? And so, I then started giving special gifts to those who were referring me to people also.

And when I say special gifts, not like an Astounding Auctions sticker or a cup, but, Hey Sanjay, you deserve a massage. So I'm going to send you a massage as a thank you for booking and sending people my way. I'm responsible for closing, all you have to do is tell me who they are. And I don't want to hassle people.

I don't want to chase them down.

[00:10:22] Sanjay Parekh: Right.

[00:10:22] TiWanna Kenney: I don't want to do the sales pitch. I just want to tell them my why and see if my why aligns with your needs and then we can come together and make it a perfect sandwich.

[00:10:30] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. I think there's a very brilliant nugget in what you just said there in that, you know, a lot of companies will send basically branded tchotchkes as thank you gifts. And basically, what you're telling this person that you're saying thank you to of is I want you to be somebody that's a billboard for me, even further than the thing that you've already done. Whereas, you're kind of twisting that and saying like, I'm not even going to give you something physical. I'm going to give you an experience.

So maybe you'll remember me that way and kind of appreciate the fact that you're there. I find that's a very interesting insight that you've got there. Where is it that you came up with that? Is that something that you experienced yourself or is this just something that you kind of stumbled upon and said, like, this is the right thing?

[00:11:12] TiWanna Kenney: It's again, it didn't set my soul on fire. I was looking at branding and promotional sites and I said, none of this feels good. I don't really even want any of this. If I want to put my brain on something, I have some circular stickers. I slap it on that. And it's just in case I lose it typically, not even because I like it.

That's really what it's about. But what do I like? What would make me feel like a thank. Oh, I listened to you. Do you like coffee? I'm not just going to get you coffee, but I worked with an organization in Uganda and they had the most incredible coffee. I'm going to get you that coffee direct from Uganda, and I'm going to deliver that to your door.

You told me you like massages, pedicures, manicures. I'm not just going to get you one, but I'm going to find one of the best in town. Send you a gift card and say, go see Sonya, because she's the best and give you that as well and give you the opportunity to make you feel special because you know what you did for me made me feel like I was the king of the world, or the queen of the world. And because I feel like I'm the queen of the world, I want to give you something that's going to make you feel like I felt that way.

[00:12:14] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:12:14] TiWanna Kenney: And it's going to be thoughtful about you and not about me.

[00:12:16] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. I love that. But I want to know, you're like driving me into the tactics of this. So that's for a lot of people it's really hard to remember all of those things that people tell them.

Right? If you interact with a lot of people to remember, like what X, Y, and Z person really loves coffee, and then, you know, ABC person really loves massages. Is there something that you do to keep track of all of this information and to remember. You know, hey, if they ever do something for me that I need to do this for them.

[00:12:46] TiWanna Kenney: Absolutely. So now, I'm thankful for corporate America for this, because the way I keep track of this information is something I learned when I was in management in corporate America. I never wanted to motivate my team by doing what I wanted for them. And so it was important to get to know them.

So I literally had a form that was called getting to know you and I'd ask them what makes them feel celebrated and appreciated. And to tell me about a time when it happened, whether it was personal or professional, or even both, and you paint this picture for me. I find a way to incorporate that into the conversation that I'm having with my clients, the leads that I'm speaking to regularly, what makes you feel valued about doing your job?

What do you appreciate the most, and how do you go home after a tough day at work? What do you do to make yourself feel better? And I use this magical thing called a CRM, which we had in corporate America. We didn't call it a CRM there because we were, you know, again, on the finance side, we just called it our customer portal.

But for me, it's the CRM that's magical. It holds data, it tells me anniversaries, it tells me birthdays. It tells me the organization's anniversary. So, I can commemorate as much as I like. And all it is just taking a note. When I ask that question, and it's usually in that getting to know stage. Because many times people do business and they forget the importance of building rapport.

And that's where you are letting down walls and saying, I trust you. This is where you're letting down the walls to say, you know what? We can try something that may be a little bit uncomfortable, but for the greater good, why not? And rapport, I think many times can be forgotten in business. We jump straight into these things that you had your need for, but when you're building rapport, you get tons of information that can make your client feel special.

And that lets them know that if you hear them, you're definitely going to hear the people you're working with on their behalf.

[00:14:35] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. I love that. And basically, kind of the point of what you're saying here is that we should be thinking about building relationships and not thinking about transactions.

And I think we see that with a lot of people, right? And, you know, those interactions you have with companies and individuals where you can tell it's just transactional. And you don't go out of your way because it's just transactional, right?

[00:14:55] TiWanna Kenney: Yeah. You're spot on.

[00:14:56] Sanjay Parekh: So, with your customers, then, as you're building these relationships, how have you seen that impact kind of their engagement with you? Like, do you have customers that you've had now for this whole time that you've been an auctioneer? Like what does that look like? And do you think that this has had an impact on your ability to retain these customers?

[00:15:16] TiWanna Kenney: Absolutely. It is. I have a woman that I've worked with since 2015 and she's left her original organization and she brought me right along with the current organization.

And she says, if we're doing this, this is our person. She be takes me with her everywhere she goes. And when she joins a board, she takes me to the board. There are clients that again, I work word of mouth. I don't advertise. I don't have some amazing paid Google, you know, ad or anything like that. I just don't, that's not my jam.

It doesn't feel good.

[00:15:46] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:15:47] TiWanna Kenney: But what I do have is people who have worked with me and I say, think about five organizations and I'll even go so far is to say, these are the types of organizations that I like working with. These are the ones that get me excited, pumped up to know we’re creating change.

So, if you can introduce me to some of those people, that would be amazing, and that keeps the ball rolling. It keeps it going. And then from there, I'm able to build out my relationships. So, I think it's powerful. I think it's important to always remember how to build a relationship and to move forward in that sense.

[00:16:25] Sanjay Parekh: So, I want to make sure I understand this right. So, you're not spending any money on any kind of traditional marketing sales ads, anything like that?

[00:16:36] TiWanna Kenney: No. Business cards are the most traditional thing that I have.

[00:16:40] Sanjay Parekh: And those, yeah. I mean, you do kind of need those, especially now that we're going back to in — person stuff.

[00:16:45] TiWanna Kenney: Yes.

[00:16:45] Sanjay Parekh: That's great. So, let's talk about that a little bit. On your website, you talk about in — person and virtual services. Obviously, it sounds like the virtual happened because of the pandemic. How did you get that to work? Because I imagine in the beginning, at least, and maybe even now, there's not really much good technology and you probably had to cobble something together to help you do this. So, how did you figure that out? What are you using and how does it work for you?

[00:17:10] TiWanna Kenney: Well, the very first thing that we did was use Zoom. So that first one that happened two weeks after the world went on lockdown. And we're like, how are we going to do this fundraiser? Because we still need the funds. We didn't know that it was going to be a year — long process.

We thought that maybe it's going to be, you know, maybe two months and in three months we still have this trip that this organization needs to take and these youth need to be able to attend. So, we did it on Zoom and like I said, hot mess. But what I will tell you, you cannot pay for authenticity, and you can't fake authenticity, and those attendees were authentically having a good time.

They were excited, they were happy to be there, and they were happy to learn. We saw all their cameras, we saw their faces, we were able to scroll through what they were doing and they were engaged.

So, from that I invested in a better microphone. I invested it into a camera that I can install. So, I have a professional grade camera, which, funny story. When I bought the camera, it didn't come with a lens. And for the life of me, I couldn't understand why everything on the camera looked blurry. And I'm just like, this just isn't working. What is going on? And then I finally went through enough YouTube videos realizing, oh, you need a lens.

Why didn't it come with a lens then? But hey, digressing. So, learned that I needed to have a lens, learned that I needed the camera and then, hey, what else do I need? What makes this better? I had a, you know, those oversized Post — It boards that you can dry erase on one side. That was my scripting initially. And then one day I was on Amazon and realized they have pretty inexpensive teleprompters.

And so, I purchased a teleprompter to put that in there. And then I said, what else can I do? The green screen function works on Zoom, but it looks a little, it's a little sketchy. Let me buy a real green screen. Changed my world. Next thing you know, this was TK Studios and it was popping in here, okay? And we were doing all of the things, making all of the videos, and that's what changed.

As far as software, that's something that's different. Nonprofits use different software, so sometimes I'd use one and then use a different one. But my biggest goal was to make sure I was familiar with as many of 'em as possible and how to get the best use out of them, because that wasn't necessarily on my side. They had to do their ticket registration vendors, bid putting in vendor numbers, and things like that.

So, I wasn't necessarily responsible for that part of it, but I did have to make sure I knew whatever system they were using, get with their back end, have them teach me the ins and outs, so the way I can see. And then I had to get rid of, you know, I had my auction chant where I was a fast talker, but that didn't translate well on screen.

[00:19:49] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:19:49] TiWanna Kenney: And there's latency, there's lags. So, from that, I had to build that in and come and do more of a Christie's and a Sotheby's style. Let's sell it at 500, 500. Now, 1000, 1000. Now 150 — or 1500, not 150 — 1500 now, 2000 now, 25. And we went that way, and then I'm like, That's boring, we need to amp that up a little bit more.

1000, now, will you do 15? $1,500 for you to get the opportunity to have this chef come into your home. When you haven't had any contact, you can seal that kitchen off and they're going to come, cook your amazing meal and then clean your kitchen for you afterwards, professionally. Doesn't get much better than that. Let's go.

And keep them excited and keep them going. And, and then as software became better, I was able to 15 and 15 now 2000 anybody bid now 2000 now, 25, 2500. Let's do it again, able to bid now 2,500 able to bid now 25, 3, you know, and bring that back in. Everything was just a learning process and staying abreast of technology and reading and reaching out to my peers, using Facebook groups, those became super helpful because who's doing what I'm doing and what are you doing to make it work for you? And just learning and staying virtually connected.

[00:20:59] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. I love that. I'm also, I feel like I'm ready to bid on a chef coming to my house right now. But I love how you basically, you didn't do it all in one day, right? Like setting up your whole technology platform and everything. It was all incremental. And I think a lot of times we see people that have accomplished all this and we're seeing the output at the end of the process.

And not going back and realizing, oh, they incrementally improved this over time, right. You improved one thing at a time. You did the microphone first, then you did the camera, then you did the green screen and then dealt with kind of the technology, all across the way. So I think that's a challenge for a lot of people because they're trying to emulate somebody like you and like, oh, I need to spend $20,000 on all this technology before I even start.

And that's definitely not the case.

[00:21:45] TiWanna Kenney: No. Not at all. And that's the thing, it's not just about seeing the results of the journey. Take the journey with me and do what makes the most sense for you. My camera here is perfectly fine. I didn't need a camera right away. But, when I wanted to change and become stronger and get a crisper connection, that's when it came in.

So do things that make sense and don't feel like it all has to be done today. Your business can always scale up. You just don't want to have to scale back, if you scale up smart.

[00:22:15] Adam Walker: Support for this podcast comes from Hiscox. Committed to helping small businesses protect their dreams since 1901. Quotes and information on customized insurance for specific risks are available at Hiscox.com. Hiscox, the business insurance experts.

[00:22:36] Sanjay Parekh: Okay. Let's change gears a little bit and talk about some of the things that you've talked about in the previous episode that you were on, about the value of representation and mentorship and kind of the struggles that you have within the auction industry. You're one of the first, only, you know, one of the few, I guess, black women as auctioneer.

So, how has that experience been for you in terms of breaking into the industry? And then also, how are you engaged with others that want to be in the same industry as you?

[00:23:03] TiWanna Kenney: Well, so I'm going to answer this in reverse. I will tell you, I get excited anytime I see anyone who looks different than what the traditional auctioneer looks like.

And that's not to take anything away from that, but we all understand it takes courage to do something new. It takes courage to break into a new field. So that excites me. I want to see you get up. I want to see you try something new and I want to bring you in and make sure that you know you're not alone.

And I have to also realize in that process that not everyone feels that way. Just because someone may be different ethnically, that doesn't mean that they necessarily feel like they have any different challenges. But I always want to reach out and let them know. Because there's an organization I work with called The 100 Black Men, and their philosophy is, what they see is what they'll be.

And you need to see the differences in yourself and see that representation because, there are people out there, little brown boys and girls that have no idea that they could be an auctioneer because they haven't seen it. They may go buy there, they may go shop at the auctions, but they never thought about being the person on the other side of it.

So, I reach out whenever I see them in auction school. I look through the pictures all the time. I reach out, just give them a warm hello, let them know I'm here to help them. I even put it on my calendar just to check in with them two months later and see how things are going. If they have any questions, make sure they're joining their state associations, national associations.

And if they're not, because that is a financial investment, sometimes I may have the ability to gift a membership into the associations. Sometimes it's just a matter of saying, hey, I'm going to do this one thing and let's see if I can get this person to talk to you afterwards that was powerful and helpful.

Mentorship, it matters. And your mentor doesn't have to be what you need. So, I didn't necessarily need a mentor that was a black woman. I just needed someone to say, hey, this is possible and let me show you the ropes. And while I didn't get that, initially, I have to tell you, now I have a tribe and my tribe is phenomenal.

I have a group of women that we talk to regularly, we travel for auction events together, often for national association events. I also have a group that came together during the pandemic and it's men and women, and we're geographically diverse through the United States. So, we shared ideas, we spoke on a weekly basis.

We talked about what happened in our virtual world, what didn't work in our virtual world, and we look different because diversity, again, it's deeper than what the color of my skin is. It's where do we live?

[00:25:27] Sanjay Parekh: Yep.

[00:25:27] TiWanna Kenney: It's what are our organizations? What are our styles on stage? Are you passionate? Are you excited and dynamic and loud and going to bring it all together?

We're dynamic in so many ways, and we were able to come together and put documents in and give each other ideas on how to be stronger and help our nonprofits and put together best practices. So, while I don't have mentorship, I think I have more of a cooperative now where I have people who are like — minded, but we look different in the execution of it.

And that's just as important, like — mindedness, but I don't want to work with another TK because that's not going to help me grow. I need to work with a Sanjay. I need to work with a Misty. I need to work with a Zan and a Tricia.

[00:26:06] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. I love that. I love that. So. Okay. For our listeners that might be thinking like, Maybe I might want to be an auctioneer. What piece of advice would you have for them to get them on their way?

[00:26:20] TiWanna Kenney: Well first, I would tell them to give me a call because I also have an auction school now. So, I do help people become auctioneers. I actually will be teaching next week. It's out of McClenan Community College in Waco, Texas. It's eight 10 — hour days, and it is intense.

You have to be ready to speak in front of people. So, call me, I'll learn more about what you want to do, whether it's benefits, which is what I do, selling, you know, farm, cattle equipment estates, foreclosures, if you want to do the government seizures, whatever it is. Let's talk about it because I know someone who does it all, and we'll get you on the path of having someone who will help you navigate that world.

But the first step will be going to school to build that network. And secondly, to remember, every time you reach out to anyone who is in the auction industry, to treat it like a job interview. Show up as if you're interviewing, because essentially this isn't an industry that's run corporately. While we do have a few corporate entities, most of it is single people running their own businesses, whether it be an LLC and on its way to a corporation.

So, everything that you do, you have to think about it as, this is a job interview. I want to show up as my best self. If I'm meeting with you for lunch, I'm not going to show up in sweatpants. I'm going to show up as who I am, that makes you say, I want to hire you. I'm going to have questions ready. I'm going to honor your time. And I'm also going to show you what my commitment is. And those are my three pillars that I would say to bring with.

[00:27:48] Sanjay Parekh: I can only imagine the cacophony of speaking at an auction education school there and everybody talking fast all the time, the whole time.

So, I don't know if my brain would be able to keep up. So, I'm probably not good for your auction school, but I know there's a lot of people that are so that is awesome that you're doing that. TiWanna this has been incredible. I'm so glad that we had a chance to catch up with you again, and to hear about the progress that you've made and honestly all the incredible things that you're doing. Thank you for what you do and who you are, and for coming back on the show.

[00:28:21] TiWanna Kenney: Thank you, Sanjay. So nice to have been here with you and thanks for your time.

[00:28:25] Sanjay Parekh: Thank you for listening to this week’s episode of the Side Hustle to Small Business Podcast, powered by Hiscox. To learn more about how Hiscox can help protect your small business through intelligent insurance solutions, visit hiscox.com. And if you have a story you want to hear on this podcast, please visit Hiscox.com/shareyourstory. I’m your host, Sanjay Parekh. You can find me on Twitter at @sanjay or on my website at sanjayparekh.com