Steven Carse, King of Pops

[00:00:00] Sanjay Parekh: Welcome to the Side Hustle to Small Business Podcast, powered by Hiscox. I’m your host, Sanjay Parekh. Throughout my career I’ve had side hustles, some of which turned into real businesses, but first and foremost: I’m a serial technology entrepreneur.

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[00:00:54] Sanjay Parekh: If you live in the southeast, a rainbow umbrella and a push cart is a sign of something sweet to come. Since 2010, the popsicle treats dubbed “King of Pops” have dotted public parks, live events, and music festivals offering delicious icy pops in flavors like raspberry lime, orange creme, and my personal favorite – chocolate sea salt. But behind this sweet success is the story of two brothers and a $7,000 investment.

Steven Carse, along with his brother Nick, founded King of Pops in 2010. Over the last 12 years, the business has grown from a few employees in one production kitchen to a southeast staple. You can even find them in Whole Foods! On today’s episode, Steven and I talk about the King of Pops origin story, where the famous rainbow umbrella came from, and the new ventures King of Pops is spearheading – including a “Cartreprenuer” program. This episode is jam-packed with stories and lessons. Stay tuned!

[00:01:51] Sanjay Parekh: Steven, welcome to the podcast, I'm super excited to have you here. And we're going to get into King of Pops in a minute here, but thanks for coming on.

[00:01:58] Steven Carse: Oh yeah. Excited to be here. Thank you.

[00:02:00] Sanjay Parekh: First, just to get us going tell us a little bit about yourself, like where you were born and raised, where you went to school, all of those things.

[00:02:07] Steven Carse: Yeah, I was born in Austin, Minnesota. My dad worked for Hormel and that was one of his many stops that took us to Omaha after that, and then we settled in Atlanta by the time I was just entering kindergarten. So pretty much all I knew. Graduated from UGA, got a newspaper degree and went out west, threw my name in the hat for a sports writer job, which is a very competitive field.

Got an offer in LaGrange, Georgia, and Idaho Falls, Idaho, and I thought, let's head west. I made it about a year in that industry, but learned quite a bit and had a short stop in the insurance industry. The Great Recession took care of that for me, and then landed at King of Pops and 2010. I didn't land at it, started King of Pops.

[00:02:56] Sanjay Parekh: It landed on you; you didn't land on it. It sounds like. I got to ask you, are you like a big fan of Spam? Your dad worked at Hormel.

[00:03:07] Steven Carse: Big fan. Yeah, I think I've had it a few times in my life, but love the marketing for sure. With the Spam Mobile was my favorite race car in the NASCAR circuit. Although I never went to a race, I remember we always watched it and I don't know if this is true or not, but my dad would always say that the driver was paid for like how much screen time he got – he got some bonuses – and so he would like, he'd be in like last place.

But when the first-place people came, he'd start racing really fast so he could be on the screen for a longer period of time. I thought that was pretty smart. But yeah, I think a Spam, pretty cool. We always. We always had Spam shirts that we were wearing and it's a loved product in our family.

[00:03:53] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine. That's fascinating. We'll talk about Spam again in a minute here.

So, King of Pops was that your first ever entrepreneurial venture? Did you do anything as a kid that was entrepreneurial-ish?

[00:04:06] Steven Carse: Yeah, I've got my stories. I think the most entrepreneurial, I just had an eBay business pretty early. I played disc golf, which is a fringe sport that never really has taken off, but most people are familiar now. You know what that is?

[00:04:23] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah absolutely, but do explain it, so in case the listeners don't.

[00:04:26] Steven Carse: Yeah, so it's basically golf, but instead of a hole you have these chains with a bucket or a little contraption that you throw the Frisbees into. And I lived next to a course or fairly close to a course that had a couple of lakes.

So, each Saturday I would put on my swimsuit and head on in and gather up as many Frisbees that not that good disc golf players had thrown in there. And some of these things would be, most of them were like eight to 10 bucks and I'd ship them to them. I ended up making $3 or $4, but a few of them wouldn't be like these rare collectible things that would be $30 or $40.

So, I had very high eBay rating early on. I also similarly on eBay, I had a friend that was really good at EverQuest was, I don't know World of Warcraft is like a similar one now, but he was very good at the game and I was not, but I would do like the business side for him. He would be selling swords and these imaginary things, which I guess with the Metaverse is directionally what we're going towards in some ways.

And so we were doing that as well. Those were like some of my high school exploits.

[00:05:37] Sanjay Parekh: Okay. Yeah, so let's talk about work. So the Great Recession happens. You were in insurance, you're like, yeah, that's done. And you're sitting around trying to figure out what to do. How did you decide like, to not go get a job and instead start a thing? Like how did that idea come about?

[00:05:52] Steven Carse: Yes, I was laid off and I had the writing was on the wall for a year essentially. And so, I had a lot of time to think about it, and even with all of that time, I still did go and interview at other insurance agencies and considered getting back into it. But I think for me I had this itch.

I knew it was not going to be easier later in life, other than maybe having more money, but also having a family and a bunch of other responsibilities. I essentially had zero responsibilities. And I don't know I come from a family that really loves to tell stories, and my dad is a master embellisher, but I didn't want to not have given it a shot if it's something that I felt like. I just felt like it was as good a time as any.

So it seems simple, but that was really it. I think I just didn't want to have not done it. And I felt like if I didn't do it then, I'd never do it. Like it was the nudge that some God or some other force was nudging me into and I'm really thankful for it.

[00:07:05] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, when you made this decision was it pretty widely accepted by the family? Everybody was in your corner? Or was anybody saying what are you thinking?

[00:07:14] Steven Carse: I think everyone was in my corner and was supportive because I didn't have a job. My brother on the other hand had finished law school and had a job as a lawyer. So about four or five months in, when I knew it was going to be, I needed to hire someone to help me, or hopefully, he could help.

That was not universally loved by the family because he had a nice income and had just gone to school for a very specific degree and all of that. But yeah, I think when I started out, pretty well supported. My brother, the brother that is my business partner, 50/50. Was so supportive that I was just living on his couch rent-free for that period of time. Which was nice.

[00:08:00] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Yeah. So that's an interesting kind of dynamic as well. Did you guys talk about it and think about it? What does this mean? What if the business goes bad and your relationship between the two of you? The stakes, as far as anything other than time, we're pretty low.

[00:08:18] Steven Carse: We had invested, I invested $7,000 that I'd saved up, which was essentially on a machine that I probably could have resold for $5,000 or something if I really needed to. And then we weren't paying anybody. So, it wasn't like we were starting a venture firm where we pull the million dollars and we're going to go get that money out into the market.

It was more like this is going to take some time. And he did get in very early, but it was a risk for sure, but we had proven the concept at least at a single cart that people were excited about it and we could turn a profit. Scaling that to a business is a completely different story.

But I wouldn't say that there was like a, ever a sense of like, we've got our whole lives on the line, and if we don't make this thing work, what are we going to ever do? I will say like the scariest part was every summer every winter, we just thought people would forget about it. We felt confident that popsicles were a fad, which I do think was a fad.

There was a period when it was a more popular food trend. And I think we outlasted the fad by becoming an established business that people liked. But we were certainly scared every winter of losing it just because we enjoyed it, not necessarily because we didn't feel like there were other streams of income that were possible.

And that's still like in some ways true today. Like I don't think that this is the business I would get into if I was trying to maximize my earnings for my entire life if that makes any sense, but I would not imagine wanting to do anything else.

[00:10:06] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. So why did you decide on popsicles? Like when you were thinking about a company just to start how did you land on popsicles?

[00:10:14] Steven Carse: Yeah, my oldest brother is an anthropologist and we would visit him. He did a lot of his field work in Latin America. So, Ecuador, Panama, we went on a bunch of trips in his vicinity where he was and the desserts fascinated us in particular the paleta fascinated us.

And I think what about it just clicked as a business was the simplicity of the production process and the sales process. It's essentially: go find some very high-quality ingredients, blend them up, they'll usually taste pretty good and then be at a place where a cold impulse-buy can happen.

And those two combinations are pretty fun to be around because the people are happy to be paying you whatever the price you set for something that is unexpectedly delicious. And it's just like in the U.S. you can go to an ice cream shop that is average below average,or memorable.

And when you find the memorable ones, when we were traveling, we found the memorable ones, like we just kept chatting about it and we would try to find the one that was as good or better. And we became fascinated with the product and what was happening here in the US very much like people thinking more about what they're putting in their bodies.

I think like the food truck and farmer's market scene was burgeoning and really taking off. So, it seemed like logically there were some pieces that were gonna make sense.

[00:11:55] Sanjay Parekh: You mentioned the startup capital. So, was it just $7,000 and that was all in what it costs to start up the business initially?

[00:12:10] Steven Carse: Yeah, yeah. 7,000 is the number. The machine to go into a bit more detail, I got a used machine from another popsicle company in Texas. Kind of a long story, how that ends up happening, but the machine that I purchased from new the guy had some shady dealings and lo and behold, the machine never arrived and he felt bad enough about it that he helped sync me up with this other company that he knew.

So I drove out to Texas. Got this machine. Plugged it into the dryer socket at my brother's house and we were off to the races as far as testing. By the time we made anything for actual sale, we had a kitchen and all that. But yeah, that was the startup. We had a little bit of money that you needed obviously for ingredients and such, but very nominal. Essentially grocery money. We were just putting it into popsicle form and consuming it. So, we're getting our caloric intake that way, but yeah.

[00:13:12] Sanjay Parekh: How long did it take then? So once you bought that machine and got going, to figure out the initial ingredients and recipes and figure out okay, we're set, and let's start selling these things.

[00:13:25] Steven Carse: I set an April 1st deadline for myself I was laid off in the fall of 2009. I figured fall was not the ideal time to start the popsicle business. So I said, no matter what happens, I'm going to start on April 1st. A bunch of things went wrong. As far as the recipe development, I would say we're never done like we're constantly tweaking and developing the recipes.

But I felt like I had a product that was good enough to put out there. It's terrifying though. First of all, people have different tastes, and people like things sweet or not as sweet or tart or not as tart. So, by its very nature, you're never going to please everybody.

And we just embraced that and made something that we thought was very tasty and went with it. But yeah, by April 1st, we had, I think probably 12 flavors that we were feeling pretty good about. Many of which are still around today, which I'm proud of when I go down and talk to the production people these days.

[00:14:29] Sanjay Parekh: So I will tell you this that's fine that you're tweaking recipes. You better never touch my chocolate sea salt because that thing is perfection, and if you mess with that recipe, you're going to get a call from me.

[00:14:46] Steven Carse: Yeah, you're right. There's some that we really have dialed in and that's certainly one of them. But things like on some of the berries, for example, you can have between farms, like a berry may be significantly sweeter than the other.

Some of those things you have to tweak or a year just might be different for peaches. But yeah, yeah, chocolate sea salt, we're lucky that chocolate I dairy, I guess can technically change a little bit, but not to my palate.

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[00:15:34] Sanjay Parekh: Okay, so let's talk about the brand and the image of King of Pops. I think you all have built a just iconic brand and with the kind of carts and the rainbow umbrellas and all of that stuff. How did all of that kind of come into play? How did you think about that? Obviously, as you said, you come from a family of storytellers, so maybe that had something to do with it, but how did you think through this kind of process?

[00:15:57] Steven Carse: It's really fun. Like one of the advantages of living in our age, I think as you can read all of the old emails. So I like to look at the email that I was sending to my list of 40 people I think to come up with the names. I had a list of seven names that I liked. King of Pops didn't win the survey test.

[00:16:17] Sanjay Parekh: Really?

[00:16:17] Steven Carse: I think Fria was the favorite and we went with King of Pops anyway, cause I just fell in love with kind of the, I don't know. I don't think we're, I don't, I think we're on the spectrum on the pretty humble side. But I liked the tongue and cheekiness of it. And something about it just really felt right.

[00:16:39] Sanjay Parekh: Having the popsicle that's wearing the king crown there I just it's iconic, I love it.

[00:16:44] Steven Carse: Yeah. I think we owe a lot of our success to getting lucky with a name and maybe we can take some credit for we did select the name. But yeah I think that part and then branding I, it's something I just love. And I don't do any graphic design, but I think I guess at the newspaper, I did lay out the newspaper. So some ways I learned some stuff there. But I knew that was going to be important or at least I wanted it to be important.

So it was something we focused on and stayed pretty on top of. So the logo creation was we probably spent way more time on it than we should for a company of our stature with zero sales. And then I think the other pieces like is more of editing, like a lot of things come at you and we were never so strict with the brand that we didn't allow things to happen.

We gravitated and grabbed onto the things that we liked and then other things, once they happened, we were just like, hmm, and that's the same with flavors. Like we would make any flavor and then if it didn't go well we would just say, ha, that didn't work and let it pass on. So the rainbow umbrella was as simple as that, it was just one of the umbrellas that was on the Walmart shelf.

We needed an umbrella. And then we were like, huh, that kind of looks nice and leaned into it since then. Yeah I think we're pretty, we're a very nimble, some would say too nimble. I think like the biz term on that is like shiny things. Like we very much are attracted to shiny things and have to put our blinders on as best we can, but then we are good editors.

I think that's something that we've done a good job at over the years.

[00:18:30] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah okay you're getting into this business. There are a lot of shiny things, but there's one shiny thing that you can't ignore, which is food safety and dealing with all that. How did a lot of people think about wanting to start-up food businesses, and that feels like a hurdle to a lot of folks in learning all of that.

So like, how did you figure all of that stuff out that obviously you, you don't want to make people sick, you don't want to get sued for making people sick. Like how did you figure all that stuff?

[00:18:59] Steven Carse: I wish I could say I went to class ahead of time and figured it out. We actually went to ice cream school a couple of years in and learned quite a lot in that moment. I think we learned a lot from like the Department of Ag. Like probably people have a lot of bad rap for these government agencies, but they were actually very helpful like they wanted us to be a successful business. So that's whom we're regulated by, not the Department of Health. So they would simply say like, hey, this is not going to work, here are some things you could do differently, but this isn't acceptable.

And then I think food safety is like a lot of things, you're never done with it and you're never perfect. There are always going to be areas where you could improve a process. So you kinda just have to have it be a constant conversation.

One of the most difficult business decisions we made was we were making products in each of our cities. So we had warehouses in Charleston, Charlotte, Nashville, and we're making pops locally in each place. And that was really an important piece of our business because we were buying produce locally and we were able to sell it to the people locally.

As you scale food safety is very much a numbers game, and when you make a thousand of something, your chances of having something go wrong are, it's the same chance. But if it's a 0.0001 of a thousand, you're probably in the green. If it's a 0.0001and you're making 3 million of something, then you've basically just said you're going to get three people sick, and that's absolutely unacceptable.

So you need to go from the restaurant level of which is pretty familiar and there's a lot more training to a manufacturing side. And that change required us to go to a single location. But yeah. I don't have any, I think we went for it and we took it seriously at every step of the way. And then as we grew brought in the appropriate resources that were beyond our comprehension of things.

[00:21:10] Sanjay Parekh: So you went, you went from a manufacturing in a bunch of places and then consolidated and now only manufacturing one. Is that what I'm hearing?

[00:21:18] Steven Carse: Yeah, that's correct. We're in Atlanta now. In 2017, we went from five production facilities that had more of a GM operating the kitchens to a single facility. So we could do a lot of paperwork, there's a lot of testing, and it was just challenging for somebody that wasn't a hundred percent focused on it to do, and it did not make sense to have some well, the business didn't justify having someone with food safety background in all of those places, just because of the volume that they were doing.

[00:21:53] Sanjay Parekh: Ah, gotcha. So now, instead of doing that you're thinking about the logistics and then shipping out from one place to all the locations. Okay. Got it. Interesting. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about the carts. You've got this Cartrepreneur program.

[00:22:10] Steven Carse: Easiest word ever to say, right?

[00:22:12] Sanjay Parekh: Cartrepreneur, yeah. I already have a tough time spelling entrepreneur. I type it all the time, but I still seem to misspell it every single time.

[00:22:20] Steven Carse: We'll own the SEO on that word is our thoughts.

[00:22:24] Sanjay Parekh: Good ideas. See again, back to the branding and the marketing, that's smart.

[00:22:29] Steven Carse: Yeah, so it's so with COVID obviously it impacted a lot of businesses.

We're still hearing about it today, hospitality in particular. But the way that our business had grown, at one point, was that we had pretty large corporate clients. We had a sales team calling on these corporate clients. They were having large outings or activations from a marketing standpoint where they would want to associate with our brand and we'd make them a special pop and a wrapper and a Coke or MailChimp or some of these brands with large budgets would pay a pretty good amount for something like that.

And additionally, Emory or different universities would have these really large events. As large events stopped happening for what we thought would hopefully be a shorter period of time, but in some ways, it's starting to come back, but our sales process just did not make sense and we needed to quickly figure out a way to meet people where they were, which instead of at Bonnaroo and huge corporate events was...

Hey, I'm going to have food trucks at my church parking lot, or just in my own backyard. I'm having a barbecue and inviting the neighbors to. And a central sales office wasn't working well for that and so we were missing the boat on a lot of these kind of very grassroots, last-minute events. We would find out about them after the fact.

We have been asked forever if people could just have one of our carts and sell our pops, and the protective folks that we are, we were just nah, things are going fine. Like we don't want to mess it up. We're just thanks, but no, thanks. When a pandemic happens and you're, in our case, a popsicle business, you kind change your tune a little bit. So we said, okay, yeah, this sounds great.

[00:24:30] Sanjay Parekh: We've been meaning to do this the whole time!

[00:24:33] Steven Carse: So we basically just said yes to something that we had been saying no to for a decade. And our fears were the upsides versus the, what we were worried about were just so apparent very quickly. The authentic connections that people had with their schools or their church, or any of the organizations like their softball league or whatever were just so authentic.

It was amazing to see how quickly they were able to add opportunities that we had never even thought of. So something that we did just like a, hey, we're just trying to keep the lights on from COVID, a couple of months in we're like, okay this is a great way for us to do business. I reached out, I spent the next year basically setting up a franchise program that I felt like we could be proud of.

I didn't know it would be franchising to start with. That's something that has had the slightest bit of, didn't feel right to me. So that's why the Cartrepreneur is like the name that we're rolling with. We don't really want to be trying to attract folks that are going through the Rolodex of franchise opportunities because I think that what we want is community-focused.

Hey, this would be great if you've got a 15-year-old kid that you want to teach a little bit about business and you want to make some extra cash. Instead of just, and have fun most importantly, instead of just which is the thing that I'm going to make the most money from, is it a janitorial service, a bug service, or King of Pops.

And I think those are all great things and I really appreciate the entrepreneurial spirit in all of them. But I wanted to really. It's all about the people and I think that the people that we want to attract, we'll attract more through either already familiar with our product, which there'll be like this first wave of people and then I think the second wave of people, if we do this will just be attracted to the spirit of what we build. Which that's a real woo vague thing. But I think you know it when you see it. I think it's something you can't necessarily put your finger on for King of Pops in general, but there's something that you do like about it.

Or at least our fans do that's beyond nice marketing or a tasty product. So that's the origin story and it's what I'm all in on. So we went from having 350, 400 employees and that sales team that was applying to events and getting us into hundreds of events per week, and now our job is to support our Cartreprenuers help find some more great ones.

And we're really uniquely positioned. We have a distribution business called Perfect10 Foods that we started in 2014. And so we're doing our own self-distribution, which is really important with frozen and we're distributing to the entire south in our own trucks. So we're able to pull our truck into maybe your driveway, or maybe we got to be on the street if you've got a skinny driveway and go from there.

But yeah, it's super exciting.

[00:28:03] Sanjay Parekh: So, so the people that are distributing your product are employees as well then, you're touching the product all the way through until it gets delivered. That's fascinating.

[00:28:12] Steven Carse: Yeah, so the same truck that's delivering pops and we have Perfect 10 is a distribution company that has about a hundred brands that we represent right now.

A whole other story. When we started that, we thought it'd be 10 brands. We wanted it to be like we didn't love the distribution world, where we felt like we were getting lost in the catalog of 10,000. So we wanted to make something for brands our size, where it would be a bit more personal. 10 just didn't work from a business side.

So we understand why people need the 10,000 now. But we're still on the much smaller side. And so the same trucks that are delivering to Whole Foods and about five or 600 accounts across the south are also delivering to people's houses or if they've got like a, an office or wherever they're running their business out of.

[00:29:00] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, okay. So that's fascinating. That's some vertical integration that you've done. Is there anything else like that, that you've done? I feel like I read something about a farm that you were thinking about doing, did that happen?

[00:29:11] Steven Carse: Yeah, very vertically integrated. We have a farm it's called King of Crops. It's in Winston, Georgia, which is about 30, 40 minutes west of Atlanta.

And we grow berries, blueberries, blackberries, muscadines. We've got some goji berries. We've got some pawpaw. It's a, it's an ambitious project to grow your own fruit and so we've got some big ideas there. I think it's something where we want to be connected with that farming world, and personally, like Nick and I get a lot of joy and bringing people out there and having events and such.

So, we get a small amount of produce from there. One day we hope to get more produce from there. And keep it rolling. But you're right. Yeah, we also compost out there. So, Compost Now has a facility there where it is truly a full circle where we could theoretically grow something, make te pop, and then put the, whatever's left afterwards, back into the earth to make more pops.

[00:30:18] Sanjay Parekh: So that's, you guys are using Compost Now, the company that does composting, is it?

[00:30:23] Steven Carse: Yeah, we use Compost Now, but additionally Compost Now is composting at our farm. So, they do like their Atlanta composting for all of the waste that they pick up in the Atlanta area. It goes out there and gets made into a beautiful soil.

[00:30:39] Sanjay Parekh: Awesome. Incredible. Okay. So last question. What does the next 10 years look like for King of Pops? Is there some big event that happens? Is it like King of Pops is international? What does it look like?

[00:30:54] Steven Carse: 10 years is an interesting timeframe. I've got five years, so I'll start there. I think we got about 300 franchisees. The distribution company we've added Florida. So, we've got Florida and the entire southeast. And I think from an event side, yeah, I think we want to, maybe a la Sweetwater, have a namesake event in the middle of summer where people are just having all the pops they could ever imagine.

We do it in the fall. We have a field day already which is a smaller scale event, but it's a lot of the origin story of that was to, we didn't want to sit on a bunch of pops through the winter, so we would give them away. But it'd be nice to do something in the middle of the summer when it's super-hot.

And that, that would be nice. But it we're laser focused on Perfect 10 and growing out that business as a distribution business, and then I'm specifically focused on Cartreprenuer Program and growing that out. It's the model that we want to expand our business with and feel like it is all of the right mixture of a huge opportunity with a really high ceiling.

It's fun to feel like you're providing something that people will really appreciate on a scale that is even larger than a popsicle. So it's like it's going to impact their lives positively. And then we get to enjoy, we get to enjoy bringing some new people into the fold and have their ideas be brought to life. It's really, really lucky to get to do it every day.

[00:32:25] Sanjay Parekh: I'll tell you if you're going to do a King of Pops event and especially if it's a, all you can eat pops, I will be there. Your first ticket sold right there. Cause I'm there with you. Okay. Steven, where can our listeners find you? They've been listening to us talk about popsicles this whole time and they know that the chocolate sea salt is the best one.

Where can they find your products? Where can they find you?

[00:32:46] Steven Carse: Yeah, so www.kingofpops.com, you can find a full list of all of the stores we're in Whole Foods for the entire south region most of the Mid Atlantic as well. So you could find us in Whole Foods if you're on the east coast. And we keep everything up to date on our Instagram, it's our most active platform. That's just @KingofPops.

And then if last but not least, if you happen to be a store that's interested in getting King of Pops in your store, or if you're making a great product that you think should be distributed to the many amazing independent stores in the south, we'd love you to check out a Perfect 10 Foods on Instagram. That's just @P10Foods. Or just search Perfect 10 Foods Atlanta. There is actually another food distributor called that, unfortunately. So, make sure you're going to the one that's based out of Atlanta, but those are the places we'd love to have you have, we'd love to come out to your event.

So if you have any event that you think would be a little bit more fun with the King of Pops cart we're booking stuff for the year and are excited to have a lot of things on the schedule. But

[00:33:58] Sanjay Parekh: Awesome, Steven, thanks so much for being on the podcast. This was wonderful.

[00:34:03] Steven Carse: I really appreciate it. It's a lot of fun. Thank you.

[00:34:15] Sanjay Parekh: Thank you for listening to this week’s episode of the Side Hustle to Small Business Podcast, powered by Hiscox. To learn more about how Hiscox can help protect your small business through intelligent insurance solutions, visit hiscox.com.

And, if you have a story that you want to hear on this podcast, please visit Hiscox.com/shareyourstory.

I’m your host, Sanjay Parekh. You can find me on Twitter at @sanjay or on my website at sanjayparekh.com.