Project Management Operations: Keith Williamson's Consulting Journey

[00:00:00] Sanjay Parekh: Welcome to The Side Hustle to Small Business Podcast, powered by Hiscox. I'm your host, Sanjay Parekh. Throughout my career, I've had side hustles, some of which have turned into real businesses, but first and foremost, I'm a serial technology entrepreneur. In the creator space, we hear plenty of advice on how to hustle harder and why you can sleep when you're dead.

[00:00:21] On this show, we ask new questions in hopes of getting new answers. Questions like, how can small businesses work smarter? How do you achieve balance between work and family? How can we redefine success in our businesses so that we don't burn out after year three? Every week I sit down with business founders at various stages of their side hustle to small business journey. These entrepreneurs are pushing the envelope while keeping their values, keep listening for conversation context and camaraderie.

[00:00:56] Hi, and welcome to the Side Hustle to Small Business Podcast. Today we've got Keith Williamson with us, who's a operations and project management expert, and we're gonna talk to him about his side hustle that he's launching right now. Keith, welcome to the show.

[00:01:08] Keith Williamson: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

[00:01:09] Sanjay Parekh: So I'm excited to have you on because project management operations, all that stuff is obviously very critical to entrepreneurs and small businesses. But you're doing that as a small business, as a side hustle yourself. So first, before we start talking about that, give us a little bit about your background and what got you to where you're.

[00:01:27] Keith Williamson: Yeah. So when I introduced myself, I describe myself as a project manager by passion. My journey, like I have a specific memory of being in middle school and every middle schooler I know has a band, right?

[00:01:39] And so I took call in the role of manager. I was the band manager. Like, I was like, Hey, let's have a meeting about this. Like, what are we gonna do? How are we gonna do this? And like that was, and I loved that. And you know, as a, every middle schooler does forgot about that until. You look back on your life and you realize, oh, that was a key moment that revealed something about who I am. And so, you know, I went, we were mentioning my undergrad is actually in dance as a dancer. But I realized I did not have the passion to perform, which as a guy dancer, you don't need a whole lot of passion to perform. But what I really was intrigued by was making sure that all of the dominoes were lined up for opening night for my friends who were pouring their heart and soul into their performance.

[00:02:28] To not have that go well because somebody didn't push play at the right time broke my heart. Yeah. And so then, that led me into, kind of looking back on it, it was project management, but project management in the live entertainment space. So they call that stage management technical direction. They have different words for it, but that's what it was. Those were the, that was the framework that I was operating in that. And got married wanted to start a family. I don't know if you know this about live entertainment especially in the nonprofit space, not a whole lot of money in it. It's great. Like I love it and I still love it to this day.

[00:03:05] But to be able to support a family and then to be able to like be present as a person, as a husband, as a father, yeah just wasn't that lifestyle wasn't really. In the cards for me. So I shifted to project management still in the creative space with a design and creative studio. And I've been doing that for a while. And just honing that project management skill and that operations framework.

[00:03:30] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:03:31] Keith Williamson: Ever since.

[00:03:32] Sanjay Parekh: It's an interesting change that you've made there, right? From a dance degree into. Project management, right? Yep. Is there anything that has crossed over for you? Like anything that you've learned in terms of lessons with dance that actually applies to what you're doing now?

[00:03:48] Keith Williamson: Oh, that's a great question. Yeah, actually, so any art form any performance art, at least you spend an inordinate amount of time. Practicing you like when I was in college, I would be in technique classes for six to eight hours a day, and then another four hours of rehearsals on top of that. For all of that in preparation for a performance where the piece. You might be in one piece in in a two hour show, you might be in one piece. You might be on stage for two and a half minutes.

[00:04:28] Sanjay Parekh: Right.

[00:04:28] Keith Williamson: At most. And so what that taught me and how that influenced how I think about project management operations is building the muscle memory is important. You spend the time you put in the reps so that when the performance comes, which is the part that. Honestly, anyone that I've ever talked to that has been a performer and loved it, they love the performance aspect. But that performance aspect only exists when all of the preparation is on muscle memory.

[00:04:59] When they know what's coming and they know what's what to expect and they know that their fellow cast members are gonna hit their marks and gonna do their things flawlessly that amount of preparation comes from. Months and hours and just over and over again.

[00:05:16] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:05:16] Keith Williamson: And then you step on stage and you can let that run on autopilot and you can be in the moment and you can focus on what is making this particular life performance special.

[00:05:28] Yeah. And so that, that's what I try to bring, like the way I describe it for my designers is I, that means that all of the, you know, business processes like pipeline, file organization, asset organization, how we craft our briefs. All of that is, is muscle memory. They know what to expect. They know, hey, when something comes in, it's gonna be in this folder on the server. This is the night, this is the file naming convention. They don't have to think about any of that. All of that is just there. They can come, they can be present in the moment and bring bring what brings them alive to it. They can focus on what brings them alive. Which is designing. Which is creating.

[00:06:06] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Yeah. So how did you make that move then for yourself? Because, you know, project management, operations, like all that stuff. People go to school for that. They learn a lot of stuff. They take classes, all of those things. How did you start building up the kind of knowledge base and experience to be able to do that effectively?

[00:06:24] Keith Williamson: So I had a friend, so I was, you know, looking to make this transit transition. And this is probably 15 years ago or so, 20 years not quite 20 years ago. I had a friend she and her husband were running an agency here in Atlanta. And her husband was the creative director. The executive creative director, and she was the business mind, like she's the admin, she's fantastic at what she does.

[00:06:50] And we were going to church together actually. And I remember thinking about like a shower epiphany of, hey. Project management is a thing. Like people talk about that as a thing. And then I remember approaching her and being like, I, I think I could do what you do. Could I just show up and like maybe shadow you for a day or whatever, just to see if it's something that's worth exploring. And she's like, sure. And that turned into basically like a once a week kind of volunteer internship Uhhuh, where I would just kind of take my own time, show up and watch how that agency ran from a non-creative side, right? From a You know what does it look like to set up the timeline?

[00:07:34] How do you think about engaging with clients? What are the, you know gotchas that we need to be on the lookout for, in terms of, you know, costs or things like that? After about six, six months of that, I was like, yes, this is what I need to do.

[00:07:48] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:07:49] Keith Williamson: And at that point they had recognized a need and said, Hey, do you want a job? I was Sure.

[00:07:55] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:07:55] Keith Williamson: And so that really is where I started. And then. From there, Google is a friend, right? Like so I just Googled project management, found the project management Institute started looking, leading reading a bunch about how to lead teams, what does it mean to, to lead a team who is on your team when you're a project manager. Like, just kind of all of that stuff and really dove dove in deep on that.

[00:08:21] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. So, okay, so now you've got a full-time gig. But you're doing this side hustle. Of doing it for several. So what's kind of motivating you to do that?

[00:08:32] Keith Williamson: A couple of things. One is I'm ready for more complex challenges. And my current full-time gig they're fully aware of this. They're on board. They're phenomenal people in terms of just being supportive of my individual growth. So that's awesome. The, the problems that I have been solving at my agency, I have solved them. We know what's coming almost to the point where I can script the answer, so, hey, we're gonna, we're gonna kick off. Okay, great. Three months we're gonna have this kind of conversation. They're gonna say this, we're gonna say that this is what we're gonna do. And it's beautiful. There is confidence that comes from that. There is, you know, an ability to feel like you know what you're doing.

[00:09:24] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:09:25] Keith Williamson: But I also. Have a deep desire to get better every time.

[00:09:30] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:09:30] Keith Williamson: And I firmly believe that when you, that the only way you learn is by making mistakes. And so I want to make new mistakes. Like I'm not scared of making mistakes, I want to make new ones. And so I'm looking for things that are more complex that is twofold, that is project management or operations in a different context. And then it's also. Running my own business, which I've really never done before. So that is super scary.

[00:10:00] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. So let's talk about that. That was gonna be one of my questions. So this is your first time ever running your own thing. Never did anything entrepreneurial as a kid or anything else like that.

[00:10:10] Keith Williamson: This is the first time this, I mean, yeah. No, that's it. I've always. I've always worked hard, so I worked my way through, you know, college as a block mason. And so like that's carrying heavy things over and over again. That's digging holes is getting dirty. Okay. Which is great. It's fantastic and I would highly recommend it for everyone, but I've never never taken the leap. It's always intrigued me. I've also always been scared of it, like if I'm honest, like I've been really nervous because it feels like a more pronounced. Verdict on your success or failure, if that makes sense. Yeah. Like if you're working for someone else and you have a job, you can, all of the risk of your job going away of your financial provision kind of going away, right? That's hidden when you're in for yourself. If the clients don't come in, that's. It's easier to interpret that as a verdict on who you are and your effort and your things.

[00:11:12] Sanjay Parekh: And that's an interesting perspective to think about it that way. The alternate though is that when you're working for somebody else, you have no control over. Your destiny either because it's up to them to decide if you stay or you go. Whereas when you're doing your own thing, it's up to you to decide that. Yeah. Did that play at all into your kind of thinking about this, or was it just like this fear of like, oh, this is kind of a decision on me versus a, you know, a decision that somebody else makes?

[00:11:47] Keith Williamson: So I think. I think I bought into what a lot of people kind of assume. And that's that, that like if you have a full-time gig, that risk isn't there, through a lot of conversations with really good friends. I've had to shift my thinking on that has shifted. That risk is there, like you've said, like, yeah, you're it is no longer up to you. It is up to someone else if you stay or if you go. And so that risk is there, but it's hidden, like I said earlier. And so coming face to face with that, like, oh no, this realizing that this is a hidden. The risk is there no matter what. This is just a more open and honest way of looking at it.

[00:12:35] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:12:36] Keith Williamson: Has given me the push that I needed to be like, no. You know what? You can go ahead and give this a shot. Yeah let's go ahead and give this a shot.

[00:12:47] Adam Walker: Support for this podcast comes from Hiscox committed to helping small businesses protect their dreams since 1901. Quotes and information on customized insurance for specific risks are available at Hiscox.com. Hiscox, business insurance experts.

[00:13:08] Sanjay Parekh: So let's talk about I find it interesting you, you've talked to your current employer about the fact that you want to do this and you're kind of branching out, somewhat competitive. I guess it's in the same industry, maybe it's not directly competitive. How did you have that conversation and how did you open up that discussion?

[00:13:28] Keith Williamson: I think that discussion actually started with who my current employers are. They really strive they strive to elevate their team as much as possible. And that includes when it's time for team members to move on. Yeah. And they seek to do that with dignity and respect. And so the conversation happened, started, you know, from there.

[00:13:55] And then about two years ago when I started an MBA program. I went to my bosses, I was like, Hey I'm just letting you know I'm doing this program. You know, so not gonna affect my impact. But I just out of, and I don't know if you want to call it intellectual honesty or integrity or what. I was like, Hey, this just feels like something you should know about.

[00:14:13] Like, I'm on this program. And so they're like, oh no, that's great. That's awesome. And then back in, so I finished my program in October. Back in March. My bosses my boss pulled me in and she's like, Hey you're almost done with your program. When people get MBAs, they tend to get new jobs. So we want to help you with that. We want you to help leverage our network as business owners. Let us help support you in this so that we can make this transition. Well, we can do this well also, here's a job we think you should apply for. And so I did not get that job, which is fine. But that is how we've kind of navigated that. It's just been a lot of honest, candid conversations around Yeah, we're, we recognize that. Where I am currently. Everyone rec like it's just not..

[00:15:14] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, it's not enough.

[00:15:15] Keith Williamson: And that's not just financially, that's also like. What complexity of problems, and things that we're trying to solve and like it's just not enough. Yeah. It's just ready for more.

[00:15:25] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. It's it is great that they've taken that approach because some business owners don't take that approach, but I think this is a much more fruitful in terms of if you have this long term relationship view, right? Like, yep. Well, basically what they're doing is they're building a bunch of people that are now out in industry.

[00:15:42] That could then become clients or partners with them in the future and have this good relation. And then even if not that it's good branding and you know, you're gonna say inevitably nice things about your current employer. Hopefully future former employer.

[00:15:56] Keith Williamson: Absolutely.

[00:15:57] Sanjay Parekh: In the future. So okay. So let's talk about the business like. How are you thinking about this and how are you approaching the business? Is it the same thing that you're doing now? Is it different somehow? And how are you thinking about that in terms of getting clients and bringing people in? Because like you said, this is the first time doing your own type of thing.

[00:16:21] Keith Williamson: I am thinking about it in terms of let's solve problems. So for me, I'm having a lot of conversations with owners of agencies, of all different kinds and people of all different, you know, ilks and walks of life saying, all right, what kind of problems are you trying to solve?

[00:16:42] And am I equipped to help you solve those problems? In my experience, everyone needs help organizing themselves, right? Like that and if you really boil down operations and project management. So like, it's kind of core, like that's what it is. It's how do I help people organize themselves so that we can actually move forward on a thing.

[00:17:00] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:17:01] Keith Williamson: And so I am, you know, looking at it in terms of is there a specific problem that you need solved? And then how can I step in and solve that problem for you? Yeah. Whether that is, you know, and that's. A myriad of techniques or tools that we can use to help us solve that problem. But that's really how I'm looking at it.

[00:17:24] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Interesting. Okay, let's, you know, one thing that you said is kind of sparked a thought in, in my mind because when you started talking about dance, you were like, well, it's not a great industry to be in if you want to have kind of work life balance. You want to be present and you know, have a family life and everything. Okay. Then you got a job, so you could have that balance. Now you're starting your own thing which potentially moves you away from that balance. So how are you thinking about that in terms of work life balance, you know, because like you said a little while ago, it is all kind of up to you, at least in the early days when it's only you as the entire company.

[00:18:04] Eventually, maybe that changes when you have more people. Everything is on your shoulders and a lot of entrepreneurs, then we end up working a lot more hours. You know, balance is not necessarily it's a different thing, I think for entrepreneurs. So how are you thinking about that for yourself as you move forward?

[00:18:20] Keith Williamson: Yeah. I am a huge kind of DIY and Project NUT as well, and so there is a YouTube maker. That said something years ago on one of his podcasts that I remember, every time this question comes up it's he says that he thinks of balance not as a noun, not as a thing, but as a verb. So it's not, he's not trying to achieve balance the thing he's talking about balancing.

[00:18:48] And so balancing for him. As a small business owner and as a, you know, he's a dad with four kids as well. Balancing means, well, sometimes the business needs more of my focus and sometimes the family needs more of my focus. And so it's an intentional evaluation of in this time, in this season of life that balancing you're able to, to. To focus on what needs your attention in the moment. And then when that season has passed and recognizing when that season has passed then you're able to pivot and turn your attention to other areas that may now need your attention. And so I, I've always remembered that because I think that is a much more helpful framing.

[00:19:36] Like it's not a. You know, work life balance is not a static state. It's an act of tension. And so the tension between those things is really, I mean, that's where life happens and that's kind of where the beauty is.

[00:19:48] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Okay. I kinda love that. Let's talk about like actually starting this up and how are you. Thinking about finding clients now, like, have you found your first client? How are you hoping to find your first client soon?

[00:20:03] Keith Williamson: I am, I'm hoping to have the first client landed soon. Okay. I am going to a lot more networking event, networking events, which already feels much more outside of my comfort zone than normal.

[00:20:17] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:20:18] Keith Williamson: That's a whole conversation we can have too, about so I'm. Attending a lot more of these events. Writing down a lot of names putting myself out there a lot more in the hopes of generating generating enough traction to where when people do have a problem, they go, oh, hey, that Keith Guy, he, he said some interesting things at one point, and he talks about solving problems. I wonder if he can help with this. Yeah. And so, or I've seen where he has solved for this problem for somebody else. And I can help and reach that out. So it's just a lot of Zoom calls at the moment.

[00:20:57] A lot of, Hey, let's get together and can I get three minutes on your calendar? And I've gotta say when you hear or you read about people saying, Hey, just reach out and ask. Everybody's generous with their time. Yeah. If somebody's on the fence about, you know just cold, like basically cold reaching out on LinkedIn or somewhere and being like, Hey, can I grab 30 minutes?

[00:21:21] I love what you do. I'd like to hear more. Almost invariably everyone's like, oh, that's awesome. Yeah, let's do that. And then it's, you know, a couple of days later and I'm meeting awesome people that are doing great things that are really wonderful. So yeah, that's what that's the stage that I'm in right now is a lot of talking.

[00:21:38] Sanjay Parekh: So it's interesting you know, you kind of made this comment and I want to dig into it a little bit. Going to networking events is outside of your comfort zone, are you naturally an introvert or an extrovert? Like what are you? Yeah. because generally entrepreneurs, even if you're an introvert, you kind of gotta be an extrovert because you gotta get out there. You're the face of the company. And you've gotta meet people and you've gotta do all those things. So where are you in terms of that?

[00:22:06] Keith Williamson: Give me a cozy hoodie in my room all day long. I love, just like I'm a homebody, right? I am definitely an introvert.

[00:22:13] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:22:14] Keith Williamson: And so this is where again, other conversations, more conversations with people that know me well and that know how I tick and what makes me come alive.

[00:22:26] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:22:27] Keith Williamson: They have helped me reframe this in that networking has kind of come to mean and I'll scratch my, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours kind of a way. Like I'm approaching you with a with a need and I'm trying to help you. Like, how can I suss out how you're figuring out what I need? Like it's just this weird Yeah. I've had to reframe that and really come back to networking is about caring for people. Well, it's about hearing their story.

[00:22:59] It's about reminding them. Sometimes honestly, reminding them that they're a good human, right? Like they're a person and that has value and that has dignity. And approaching it with that, Hey man, I just want to get to know you and I want to care for you well in that. Yeah. And then the process of, okay, so sending the thank you notes on all of the kind of the. The business of networking are touch points where you can remind people that they matter, that you're thinking about them.

[00:23:31] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:23:31] Keith Williamson: The things that you would do with your close friends, right? Like, Hey, just thinking about you sending a text. Here's a funny meme. Like that kind of stuff.

[00:23:39] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:23:40] Keith Williamson: That's what you're doing. You're just doing it for a broader swath of people. And so that reframing of it's not about. Warming up a network to find something. For me, it's about how can I care for people well in whatever they're going through.

[00:23:57] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:23:58] Keith Williamson: You know, in the context of building a business, it's you know, solving problem business problems for them. But we can still do that with dignity and respect.

[00:24:06] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Is there something that you've done or you're doing that is particularly. Different or unique in terms of networking that you've seen that's been successful?

[00:24:17] Keith Williamson: Not that's been successful. What's been spectacular, unsuccessful then? I don't know. It's still early, right? Yeah. So, so I love. I love handwritten notes. Okay. I have four kids. All of them love getting things in the mail. It doesn't matter what it is. Yeah. It could be junk mail, but all of them love getting things that are addressed to them. And so one of the things that I have started doing, which is actually much more challenging than it probably used to be, is sending physical thank you notes.

[00:24:49] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:24:49] Keith Williamson: Like just the effort of finding a, finding a mailing address for some of these things. because everything's online, right? Everybody's like, our online presence is, yes. But finding a physical mailing address and sending a a physical handwritten thank you note.

[00:25:06] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:25:07] Keith Williamson: I just think it's another way that we're able to get off of our screens and into the. The real world, the physical world. I happen to be using seed paper. Apparently there's this product out there where they, when they're making paper, they put seeds in it.

[00:25:22] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:25:22] Keith Williamson: So that you can take that and you can actually plant it and have, my version is basil. So that you can have something that you can grow.

[00:25:28] So it's just a little extra outside of the ordinary then just something that's gonna be, you know, maybe held onto for a week or whatever and then pitched. Yeah. It's gonna be something that you can then grow out of.

[00:25:39] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:25:40] Keith Williamson: So. I haven't seen, I haven't known. Don't know if it working. If it's working, but that's what I'm doing.

[00:25:44] Sanjay Parekh: No, nobody's responded back to your thank you notes at all.

[00:25:48] Keith Williamson: Someone said, so someone said they got the thank you note and they're excited to try it because she's wanted to try sea paper for a while, so I haven't, there you go. I haven't heard if that was how it's been. I know we did a test with my youngest and the, they are starting to germinate, so they, it does work to some degree.

[00:26:07] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. But the fact that she reached out Oh, yeah. And now will probably remember that you're the one that sent her this first one that she ever tried ever.

[00:26:16] Keith Williamson: Yeah.

[00:26:17] Sanjay Parekh: Is probably something that's gonna stick with her. So that's an interesting approach. I've heard the physical thank you things before, but I've not heard of this kind of idea of making it germinate. So that's pretty neat.

[00:26:28] Keith Williamson: Yeah.

[00:26:30] Sanjay Parekh: What else? Like, like thinking about the business is there stuff that you've been kind of wrestling with thinking about are there tools and things that you're like, okay, I need to build my toolbox to get ready for this. Like, how did you prep to get to this point of launching your own thing?

[00:26:48] Keith Williamson: So how did I get to this point of launching my own thing? First was at a networking event, was the germination was hearing a lot of agency owners. It was a marketing, you know, it was a marketing networking event. So hearing a lot of agency owners watching their face light up, when I describe myself as a project manager by passion cause they all recognize that there's a need.

[00:27:18] But then that realization that they would have of. I can't afford somebody full time. Like I know I need it, but I can't afford somebody full time. And hearing that honestly probably four or five times in a six hour period for this networking event, it was an all day thing. It's like, oh, there's actually a need here where somebody can step in and.

[00:27:41] Build the tracks, like just get the systems going, get the systems in place to where they run smoothly. And then if there's as capacity, you know grows and waxes and wanes having somebody that can just kind of step in and run those systems and interact with clients. That was a, oh.

[00:28:01] This is good. And then having people that have set up businesses before being like, okay, great. So I texted a buddy, I was like, I'm putting this out there because I know you'll keep account me accountable and I also need help. I think I want to do this thing, I think I want to do this thing. And he's like, great i's get you a domain. Let's get you a landing page. Let's get you a website. And so I did all of those things and worked and he's a big AI guy. So he threw a bunch of that into his, some of his AI clients and and bots and things. And we stood up a landing page. We got a domain with an email address hooked up to a calendar.

[00:28:42] So a scheduling system. So all of those processes are there. Outside. So, so kind of like the public facing is kind of done. The other tools that I'm using exploring notion, I'm just getting into notion, I think that's gonna be helpful for me. I'm a big paper and pen guy as well.

[00:29:03] And so I have two or three different notebooks that I'm. You know, right now they're just list of names to people to reach out to. So that is those are the tools that I'm using friends because they're done this better than I have. And then a couple of digital things, but pen and paper a lot of too.

[00:29:20] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Well, let's talk about the other side of this, like we've talked about, the excitement, all that and the need. Is there something that makes you nervous about launching this and doing this?

[00:29:31] Keith Williamson: Failing spectacularly?

[00:29:32] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah.

[00:29:32] Keith Williamson: Like, like if I, in, in all honest, so there's you know, there's a run runway, where, you know, the economy being what it is, my my current bosses, you know, with all the compassion that they could be like, Hey, we're gonna have to cut your salary. And so there's a very real need there in terms of, I've got, you know, I've got bills to pay and kids to feed and mortgage and all that stuff.

[00:29:56] And so the. The thing that makes me the most nervous is that this doesn't actually pan out, and that time and energy and effort will have been wasted. And to some degree, you know, it takes money to set up a website and like kinda all that stuff. So a small financial, you know, thing that has been wasted as well while, you know, in 3, 6, 9 months we're nowhere closer to this. I think that's what worries me the nose is that I won't know. I won't know when enough is enough and I've been beaten.

[00:30:30] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. I think that's always a struggle for entrepreneurs, especially starting out. because you don't know.

[00:30:35] When is the time to put, because, you know, maybe one more day.

[00:30:39] Keith Williamson: Yep.

[00:30:39] Sanjay Parekh: We'll get you to the promised land. Yep. Or, you know, get you to over that that hurdle that you're facing. So listen, Keith, this has been fantastic. Where can our listeners. Find and connect with you online.

[00:30:51] Keith Williamson: Sure. Keith Williamson on LinkedIn. That's probably the best easiest way to get to me. You can also check out that landing site and reach out to me through the, through there. That is orderandscaleconsulting.com. It's new so it's probably not gonna show up in searches, so go ahead and type in the whole thing, orderandscaleconsulting.com.

[00:31:11] Sanjay Parekh: Awesome. Thanks so much for being on today.

[00:31:14] Keith Williamson: Yeah. Appreciate it. Thank you.

[00:31:20] Sanjay Parekh: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Side Hustle to Small Business podcast, powered by Hiscox. To learn more about how Hiscox can help protect your small business through intelligent insurance solutions, visit Hiscox.com. And to hear more Side Hustle to Small Business stories, or share your own story, please visit Hiscox.com/side-hustle-to-small-business. I'm your host, Sanjay Parekh. You can find out more about me at my website, SanjayParekh.com.