Jacob Burt, Burt Media

[00:00:55] Sanjay Parekh: After starting his career in marketing for a food and beverage company, Jacob Burt was ready to make a change. In 2018, he founded his creative media company, BURT, based in Raleigh, North Carolina. BURT works with their clients to build and manage their media presence across social media, email, and paid advertising.

Here today to share his business story is Jacob Burt. Jeb, welcome to the show.

[00:01:20] Jacob Burt: Thanks, Sanjay. Pumped to be here.

[00:01:22] Sanjay Parekh: So, I'm excited to have you on. But before we get into the things that got you where you are right now, give us a little bit about your background. Give us like a minute on kind of what got you to the point that you're at right now.

[00:01:34] Jacob Burt: Yeah, for sure. So, I think for me I just take it back to when I started my journey at NC State University. Was at that school, completely lost on what I wanted to do when I grew up, because everyone had been asking me that for years. And I was like let me just go do a very general program to see what that looks like. I bounced around, I was doing textiles, thinking about engineering, looking at all the different schools at NC State, and then finally stumbled on a study abroad trip to China through the business school. And on that trip met one of my best friends to this day, Gabriel Gonzalez. And he was like, man, you got to join this entrepreneurship program at State. We have this entrepreneurship clinic. We're working with businesses. You'd love it. I was playing with this app idea with some of my friends and I was like, man, this sounds like my group. And then when I got back, doubled down on entrepreneurship at NC State and that led me to meet the company that I started working with in a startup fashion and set me on that marketing trajectory.

[00:02:29] Sanjay Parekh: So, the serendipity of all of that seems like it was the key. That's like the same thing in entrepreneurship, right? Like a lot of times, it's the serendipity that happens. So, did you end up switching then to business as your major and graduating?

[00:02:41] Jacob Burt: Exactly. Yeah, went to the Poole College of Management with business administration with a focus in entrepreneurship, which was a new concentration for the business school led by a guy named Louis Sheets. Huge fan of the program he built there. And that whole network and that group of people just put me in a completely different head space of looking at small companies, working on real problems with small companies, and got me excited about how those companies communicate and create content and all of those things. And that was just this sort of nucleus of energy that I was like, man, this is my thing. This is exciting. This is what I could double down on, and what I just wanted to build around for my personal interests and what I wanted to do moving forward.

[00:03:24] Sanjay Parekh: I find it funny the comment you made that entrepreneurship was a new program there. And the country that we're in, the US, 200 plus years ago, we had entrepreneurs essentially, right? That founded a country. Like all the things that are around us are because of entrepreneurs starting companies. Big, giant companies just don't blink into existence. They all start as small companies at one point, and startups at one point. So, it's just funny that it's taken so long for these organizations to be like, hey, maybe we should teach this thing that is required for everything to happen.

[00:03:56] Jacob Burt: Honestly. Yeah, exactly. You look at finance, marketing, supply chain, some of those just like classic legacy sorts of programming at universities when, to your point, like this entrepreneurship program was so refreshing, right? And exciting and real world, where you're actually interacting with companies and you're involved in the community, just was so much more powerful and fun for me compared to the finance track course or the supply chain management. Nothing against that. People like that. But for me, I was like, man, this is what I need to be doing.

[00:04:29] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Totally special people that do that because I know I couldn't do that. So that's awesome. And I think vice versa, right? Some of the things that we do, other people couldn't do, there's a lane for everybody. So, was this starting up BURT Media, was this the first time you'd done something entrepreneurial like this? Or what was the first thing, like when you were a kid, was there something that you did entrepreneurial? Like what's the first thing you remember?

[00:04:53] Jacob Burt: The first thing that really became entrepreneurial for me was just like side hustling and freelance content creation. Once I got my first actual camera, which was during my time in college. As a kid, I was very much like focused on sports and Boy Scouts. I got my Eagle Scout and some of those like free elective activities. I was never really thinking about building a business or had a side hustle of sorts. But once I got my first camera, I started doing concerts for free and then would get little paid gigs off of what I was putting out on Instagram from very random local opportunities and whatnot. So, that sort of, festival concert content creation was my first thing that probably helped me start building that skillset of, oh, I know how to use this camera now. I'm creating some work to show that I know how to, that I know how to use this, and was getting some very random onesie, twosie things as I was working at this startup that I met through the entrepreneurship program and was working with full-time, basically doing all things digital with them.

[00:05:57] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Was there anybody in your family that you witnessed that were entrepreneurs that you got to see them go through the process?

[00:06:06] Jacob Burt: Yeah. On both sides of my family, my grandparents and then their parents were pretty entrepreneurial. My dad comes from a lineage of farmers in Georgia, and I know my great grandpa, Papa Kent, was a renaissance man, if you'd call it. He had all sorts of different endeavors, whether it was a country store or a farm, a variety of different sort of, country entrepreneurship initiatives. My mom's dad helped build a medical program in Pennsylvania. So, that energy is definitely very real in our family. Then my dad's dad, my granddad or my grandpa, he had a chicken farm as he worked at Lockheed. Had a whole farm side operation going and then there's a whole story about how he might have run some moonshine and he wrote a book about that. We've got all kinds of cool little entrepreneurial stories.

My parents directly, not so much my dad was a pastor, which, I think pastors are entrepreneurs in their own right. Building their own organizations and churches. So, it's been in the ethos, I’d say, not that I was ever directly really communicating with them, but definitely thinking about their stories and looking back on the photos and everything, I find that pretty motivating and inspiring to see how they were doing it at a completely different time. Not in the digital side at all, but still finding ways to create value for their community and build something alongside of what their main career might have been.

[00:07:33] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, I got to say, being a farmer sounds like probably one of the hardest ways of being an entrepreneur. Because it's, yeah, sunup to sundown.

[00:07:40] Jacob Burt: It's a thankless thing, man.

[00:07:42] Sanjay Parekh: Man, it is a tough business to be in. I'm sure there's great stories there. And then in the moonshine part of it too, that's a whole other layer of having to hustle and get things done. So, when you were so you were in the food and beverage world, and then you exited to start doing your own thing. Why did you think about doing that? What motivated you to make that move? And what was your thought process in doing that?

[00:08:16] Jacob Burt: Yeah, so really the main event that caused all of it was the startup I was at ended up folding due to a variety of different things that had happened. And I was in that position of, man, I did this startup thing for four or five years. In startup world, you're like underpaid and overworked and you're believing in the mission of this company. I was honestly completely over startup world. I was like, man, this was so annoying. I need to go do consulting or work for a larger company and was definitely pursuing the pre-training, if you will, to look at a company like McKinsey or Deloitte and thought that was going to be my thing.

And while I was doing that, I was just freelancing gigs from the network I had built at the startup, trying to put together the money to keep the lights on, just support my life. And about 60 days of doing that and I was like, oh wait. I'm at a position now where I either need to decide that this is going to be my thing, or I’ve got to focus on building my sort of resume, if you will, or my knowledge base to go into this different career, and the decision was to double down on freelance and see what that could turn into. But it was all really that root thing of that company folding, and I went down with the ship, if you will with that one.

[00:09:37] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. What was it that made you decide to double down? Was there something that you were like, this is the reason why.

[00:09:44] Jacob Burt: Yeah. I think it was just the idea that it was working. While I was working at the startup, I always romanticized the idea of doing my own thing or building a company, but I never had the great idea. I was never the person who was like, oh, I've got the next best thing for this thing, or I've got this product to service this market or built this thing. And when the agency started working or the freelance started working, I was like, oh wait, like this this could be the thing. And I liked it because I got to work with a lot of different people. I was working with a variety of different people, and it stoked my curiosity of learning about different people's businesses and creating content around them as well as, it was a pretty low cost barrier to entry. So, I was like, there's very little to lose right now. I don't have to put up more money to get this started. It's already going. I’ve just got to find more people that I can do what I'm doing with and from there it was like, hey, let's just, let's give this a go because it's working now and there's really nothing that bad is going to happen to you right now.

[00:10:47] Sanjay Parekh: You say some things that are, I think are pretty important to highlight there. First of all, that nothing bad is going to happen, right? In your view, when you were doing that what was your view of like your backup plan if it didn't work?

[00:11:01] Jacob Burt: Yeah. I was confident that the network of people that I had built through the four years of working at that startup, I could fall back to if things like really went sideways. And say, hey I need to come on, I need a job. I need a salary. I'm either over-invested, I'm in a hole. And there were some really great people that I met at that company that believed in me. They were in my corner. They offered support if it needed to happen. And I think that foundation just gave me the confidence to say, you can go do something crazy. You can go do something different. And worst-case scenario, that W-2 job at that company's going to be waiting for you, or there's going to be a company they can connect you with. And that just gave me the, I guess, the motivation and the power to say, all right, let's go. Let's run it.

[00:11:51] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. I think what you say there is one of the things that holds a lot of people back. They, they have this fear that it's going to fail and it very likely can. But they don't think about that next step of but if it does, there's always something you can do after that. It's not like you've got this scarlet letter and nobody's going to hire you because you failed at this.

[00:12:12] Jacob Burt: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:12:14] Sanjay Parekh: So, the other part that you talk about there that I think is interesting is that you didn't necessarily have to have this brilliant idea to start this thing. Like, you just started a company and you've continued to get better at it and do more and serve clients. And I think a lot of people are held back by that, hey, I have to have this brilliant idea to start a company. So, what got you over that hump of being like, I can just do it? I can just start doing things.

[00:12:44] Jacob Burt: I think even when I was at the startup, I always had this methodology with my approach to digital execution of progress over perfection. And if you can just take one step forward closer to that end goal, it might be ugly, it might not look right, you're probably going to have to change it eventually, but at least you made that step forward. We were Jacob Burt LLC, and we did all things digital for anyone who needed anything digital. Whether you needed a website or a brand, if I had any knowledge of how I thought I could do it, we would do it for you. And I just think I got to the point, once I committed to it where it was like, just do the things and find out what you do enjoy doing as much as what you don't enjoy doing. And we realized over that first year that like, we probably weren't that great at websites. We probably weren't that great at making brands. We probably weren't that great at, some other — like SEO, we're not that great at SEO. We're not that great at Google search ads. But we're pretty good at content creation and social media strategy and email marketing and Facebook and Instagram advertising. That progress over perfection has been foundational in the past three years for me. True to form.

[00:14:00] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. I like that. And a lot of people feel like they can't ship something unless it's perfect. And honestly, nothing is ever perfect. Products from even big companies, there's problems with it. Oh, that's right. I think people need to get over that hump of it has to be perfect before it ships.

[00:14:22] Adam Walker: Support for this podcast comes from Hiscox, committed to helping small businesses protect their dreams since 1901. Quotes and information on customized insurance for specific risks are available at Hiscox.com. Hiscox, the business insurance experts.

[00:14:43] Sanjay Parekh: So, let's talk a little bit about, well, actually I do have one question for you. So, you mentioned the name of the company originally was Jacob Burt LLC. What made you default on that name of all names? Instead of actually coming up with something else? Could you not come up with a better name and you were just, I'm going to spot my name on there and that's it?

[00:15:03] Jacob Burt: One of my first ever gigs that I got, this company hit me up. Hey, we need you to go film this bar opening and we're going to pay you like 40 bucks and we need the footage. We're going to edit it. You just go do it. And I was like, yeah, of course. I was like, little, Friday evening, I'm not going to do anything other than sit around or whatever it is, I'll go shoot it. So, I shot it, sent them the footage. And they're like head of operations, emails me back and he's like, hey, to pay you, we need to have an EIN. And I was like, what is an EIN? And I was on Legal Zoom, and I was like, oh man, I need a company. And at that time, I never really thought I was going to have a company. I just thought I was going to be like side hustling at this startup. So, I was like, I'll just be Jacob Burt LLC, just hire Jacob. Jacob comes out, he does whatever. So, I made Jacob Burt LLC. I got an EIN in seven days and emailed it to him, and I made 40 bucks. I think I paid $300 to have the company made. So, I lost money on it, but I was like, I need the EIN, otherwise I'm going to look like a fool. Like, how do I get this put together? So yeah, that's how Jacob Burt LLC came to do. I think I had a couple DBAs on it, or maybe I added the DBAs later where it was like, Jeb Shoots LLC Because that was my Instagram handle. Or like Jeb Commerce. But my legal thing was Jacob Burt LLC and I was rocking with that.

[00:16:19] Sanjay Parekh: So, your first deal you ended up losing $260 on.

[00:16:24] Jacob Burt: Yeah. Lost money on it for sure. Yeah. Running negative. Yeah, it's funny looking back on it, because there were some learning experiences of getting scared into some different bookkeeping agreements and stuff where the first year while I was doing the company inside, hustling with the startup, I think I lost four or five thousand dollars.

[00:16:45] Sanjay Parekh: Let's talk about that. Like how did that happen?

[00:16:48] Jacob Burt: I don't know what it is, but basically, after I set up my thing on Legal Zoom, I started getting solicitations and phone calls from these different companies that wanted to offer services. Now I realize that Legal Zoom or whatever it was, was definitely selling my information to these companies. And I got on a call with this guy and super abrasive kind of sales personality that was trying to sell me on a 1-800 tax accountant or something. And there was this form that he said I had to have, and if I didn't file this form, I was going to have to pay all this money and that I could be in legal trouble. And I was just scared, frankly because I was like, oh man, I didn't even know that this was a thing. I don't know anything about the paperwork of a company.

My taxes and my bookkeeping are definitely something that I've had to learn a lot about. Because it was definitely probably my least area of knowledge. And yeah, I got looped into this, like, $3,000 for a year. It was quite expensive, but I had some money in my savings, and I was like, okay, if I got to do this to lay the foundation, I'm going to do it because I don't want to get in trouble with the government. And that was a horrible decision. And it was through some really shady sales tactics that I got put into that agreement and looking back on it, it didn't really hurt me these a sense of, I'm doing fine, and things are great today, but it was really scary and emotional. An emotional decision at the time, for sure.

[00:18:23] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. It is very fortunate that it's worked out for you and it's fine, that decision. But these shady tactics that happen, it's too bad because there's a lot of people that it probably doesn't work out well for, and this might be the tipping point that causes them to have to fold. Something like this yeah. It is definitely a bit of a scourge on early-stage entrepreneurs and we should all fight against that kind of thing because it prevents us from growing and expanding as a society. Okay, so I'll get off my soapbox on that.

Let's switch gears a little bit and talk about how you like, manage all of this stuff with life as well. So, you, you've got a business, you're running it you've got a bunch of people working with you. So, there's a lot of things. You've got clients. How do you balance that with, getting enough sleep and getting exercise and setting boundaries? Like how do you manage all of that stuff?

[00:19:17] Jacob Burt: Yeah, so, I'll try to keep this relatively short. I have a lot of thoughts on it. The first one is getting help when you need help, because it helps free up your time. So, don't be afraid to look for contract help, even if it's five hours, even if it's seven hours a week. You can find someone, Upwork, you can find a virtual assistant to help just free up some of the minutia of the things that you're doing. I think that's one.

Two is like project management off the jump is so important so that you can space out projects over time and just take bites out of it each day. We use Asana. I’m very intrigued by Notion right now, that's been huge. And then like just calendar management. Start living off of your Google Calendar, make appointments with your partner, make appointments with yourself to go work out. Like just really be deliberate in living off of the calendar. I know some people resist the idea that they live off at the calendar, but for me, personal, professional, relationship, everything goes on there and it's just a breath of fresh air when I can pull up my Google calendar and I see my week because if I can see my week and I can see my events, I can conquer my week. And I really believe in that. So, yeah those are the three quick buckets right off the jump that I think are like a priority to making things really work for you.

[00:20:30] Sanjay Parekh: How did you figure out that you needed to get all of your personal stuff in the calendar too? Was there an issue in the past that got you to this point?

[00:20:40] Jacob Burt: It really came from my time at school where I really felt like I was trying to just build a resume of experiences and things, and I was trying to do a lot of stuff. I had my school schedule. Then I had my work schedule where I was probably doing like 25 to 30 hours a week of work for this startup. And then I had the entrepreneurship clinic, which was like freelance work and different sort of networking events and stuff, and honestly, it was just a ton of my time that I needed to understand where it was going. If I didn't want to forget about this networking event or, not go to the grocery stores that I had to visit to check on stock with. I just had to really time block stuff and even like trips with friends, I just totally would forget about stuff because I was just cramming my weeks trying to build this body of experience and whatever that would be in the future for me. So, school hit it and then as the company was growing, just trying to have a healthy relationship with my girlfriend as well as just understanding what are my family trips that are going on in the future. Just being able to not drop the ball on anything is where the calendar became really important to me.

[00:21:54] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Do you just use a plain Google calendar?

[00:21:57] Jacob Burt: Just plain Google calendar. Yeah.

[00:21:59] Sanjay Parekh: Do you have other people that have access to it, or is it just you, or how do you manage it?

[00:22:03] Jacob Burt: My team has access to my calendar so they can always see where I am. We're a very transparent and open culture and type of workplace, so there that hasn't been like an issue or anything. I know some people have hesitations about that. And then my girlfriend and I, she'll send me invites for trips we're going on, or if we have dinner reservations, I'll send out a calendar invite for that. That's been a funny thing for us, because now it's always, did you send me a calendar invite? We got to get it on the calendar. If it's on the calendar it'll happen. So, we'll send them back and forth. But yeah, it was just simple for me to just execute on the Google calendar and keep that really front and center for how I'm planning my time.

[00:22:42] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. That's quite funny. We've just recently started doing this ourselves in our own family. And we don't have any jokes about it yet, but it's been nice because...

[00:22:54] Jacob Burt: Your kids will be sending you the calendar invites...

[00:22:58] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, yeah. They know to send, like they need to make sure that I'm there and like my time gets blocked. That I'm not recording or doing something like that. You need to get it on my calendar. Because I'm like, it's not going to happen.

[00:23:09] Jacob Burt: Yeah. I can only imagine in the future as people are growing up with devices and we're just so much, we live in this digital society that like, that whole planning thing is going to be just as much of a kid driven initiative as a parent driven initiative.

[00:23:25] Sanjay Parekh: Let's keep going down this thread a little bit. Talking about technology apps and systems that you use. What are the other things that you use to help make sure you don't drop the ball on anything or that you manage your projects properly? Like what are the things that you could absolutely not live without?

[00:23:44] Jacob Burt: Yeah, I think there's four. There's Slack, there's Asana, there's Google Drive and then there's essentially, I guess it's bigger, but it's just like the Google network, if you will, of Google Sheets and Google Docs and slides. Canva, I should probably throw on there because we rely on that pretty heavily. But anyways, like the general implementation of those is, we have that quick communication with the team, which is essential for our type of business. Digital moves fast. As well as with our clients. We set up chats with them if they're on a retainer basis with us. So, we're one step away from our people. And then Asana is where we live and die. If it's not on Asana, it's not going to get done, is what we say. So, we're we meet, and we focus on, does Asana have everything? How are the Asana projects moving? What do our timelines look like? We meet on that twice a week to make sure that we're staying on track and then everything being shareable on Google makes it so that our team can collaborate on it in real time. Nothing gets lost because it's on a hard drive over here at someone's house. We back up everything online, so that's been essential for our speed of business as well as like efficacy of our engagements. For sure.

[00:24:54] Sanjay Parekh: Your team that you work with at BURT, it's all remote? Do you have an office?

[00:24:59] Jacob Burt: Yeah, that's right. There is no office. We started really like building the team in COVID. So, it's all we've known, and all of our content production happens on site with our clients. We go to them usually or we'll book out a studio space. And I really did want to build a business that led to a lifestyle that I enjoyed. And being able to be remote and being able to work on the road are things that I really value personally, and I think our team does too. So, we're big advocates of, hey, you can do the work anywhere as long as the work gets done and as long as it's being tracked.

[00:25:33] Sanjay Parekh: Who's the furthest employee or worker from you?

[00:25:38] Jacob Burt: The Philippines. We've tapped into a VA network out there that's been super helpful for a lot of our execution assignments.

[00:25:46] Sanjay Parekh: How is managing the time zone difference between you and the Philippines?

[00:25:51] Jacob Burt: It's not bad if you plan it out far enough in advance. I think a lot of people get frustrated because they try to plan stuff the day it needs to get done, or the morning it needs to get done in the afternoon. And like that just doesn't work with the international workforce, if you will. So, if you can understand your project pipelines for the next 30, 60 days and you can just put in the daily deliverables of what needs to be happening, that's great. It's hard to work with virtual assistants in real time. Creative projects have been sort of frustrating, but things where actions can be batched, things can be planned, that's when it's been a game changer for us for getting stuff done consistently over time.

[00:26:30] Sanjay Parekh: Great. Okay. So, thinking about you, you've been doing this now for a good little while. Thinking about if you could go back in time, what would you do differently, based on what you know now?

[00:26:44] Jacob Burt: Oh, that's an interesting question. What would I do differently? I think I would just, I'd slim down the scope of services for sure. I wouldn't be everything to everyone. I would really hone in on our media brand approach that we have today. I think that's the biggest one. I think it's just like trying to focus on the things you love doing, that you know you do well, where the work proves itself. Because all our business has basically grown through referrals. So do good work as much as you can, as often as you can, that you enjoy doing. And that will have the biggest result. That first year's kind of a wash for us in a way because we were like, what are we doing? We’ve got to do it all. And that would probably have helped the business in a pretty big capacity, I'd say.

[00:27:33] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. But that experience that you had of doing everything for everyone also helped you figure out.

[00:27:40] Jacob Burt: Exactly.

[00:27:41] Sanjay Parekh: It's a dual-edged thing, right? If you didn't have that, then you maybe wouldn't have figured it out.

[00:27:47] Jacob Burt: A hundred percent, yeah.

[00:27:49] Sanjay Parekh: But now that you have figured it out, you're like we shouldn't have done that.

[00:27:50] Jacob Burt: I didn't need it figured out. There were some interesting other initiatives in that first year where I was focusing on trying to work with churches. I thought churches was an opportunity during COVID to basically just provide digital services to churches to produce their sermon on a weekly basis and do social content because they needed. It was called Faith Digital. We onboarded five clients to it, and it was working. But I spent a lot of time in the lead generation for that business, and it is just so hard to sell to a church. Given you got to get to the decision maker and the size of churches that we were honing in on. It's very complicated.

And then I also thought that there was a version of our business that would be just doing white glove digital services for CEOs at established companies. I had a decent network of sort of chief of staff type of people through the past company I was at where I was like, maybe these CEOs need to be better on LinkedIn. And I spent a lot of time exploring those two business avenues and basically got dead ended on the white glove CEO service and then just burnt a lot of lead generation time on the Faith Digital side. So, it's all part of the learnings and like trying to figure out what this agency media company would've been or could have been, all in that first year of exploring.

[00:29:15] Sanjay Parekh: What would you tell somebody that's thinking about taking the leap and starting a side hustle or taking their side hustle into a full-time business?

[00:29:27] Jacob Burt: It goes back to just that idea of what do you really have to lose at the end of the day? I know that looks a lot different for people in different stages of life. I speak to a lot of high schoolers and a lot of college kids, and even I've been speaking to some middle school classes recently, and I urge them all to just try something alongside of what you're doing when you're young, because your risk is so much lower than once you've become a parent or once you've added more obligations onto you, whether it's payments for a car or whatever it may be. When your risk profile is super low, just try, taste, test and explore. And for someone who's willing or is thinking about making that leap, I think that's the first thing to look at.

And the other one is, is the version of you five or 10 years from now going to be really pissed that you didn't try anything different for the last five or 10 years? That's what motivates me to make a lot of my decisions is, is the 30-year-old Jacob going to be happy about what the 28-year-old Jacob decided to do. And I love this quote from Matthew McConaughey where his hero is himself in seven years. You never should be your hero, but you should strive to be your hero. And I just love that idea of, is my future self-going to be stoked about what myself today did? Are they going to be happy about it? Are they going to be proud of it? And I think that would just give a lot of people the motivation to say like, why am I doing what I'm doing right now? Let's go for it.

[00:30:54] Sanjay Parekh: I love that. Jeb, this has been fantastic. Where can our listeners find and connect with you online?

[00:31:03] Jacob Burt: Yeah, so I'd love to connect with as many people as possible on LinkedIn. You can find me there, Jacob Burt, and you'll see Jeb in the parentheses right next to that. And then you can find me on Instagram too, Jeb.Burt. Those are going to be my main two platforms, but definitely follow along with BURT as well. Our Instagram is Burtmadeit and we drop all of our latest content and collaborations and updates there, so you can see a lot of our work too.

[00:31:25] Sanjay Parekh: Awesome. Thanks so much for coming on the show.

[00:31:28] Jacob Burt: Yeah, for sure.

[00:31:30] Sanjay Parekh: Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Side Hustle to Small Business Podcast, powered by Hiscox. To learn more about how Hiscox can help protect your small business through intelligent insurance solutions, visit hiscox.com. And if you have a story you want to hear on this podcast, please visit www.hiscox.com/shareyourstory. I'm your host Sanjay Parekh. You can find me on Twitter at @sanjay or on my website at www.sanjayparekh.com.