Donald Kelly, The Sales Evangelist

[00:00:54] Sanjay Parekh: Donald Kelly’s career has always revolved around his customers. Whether his role was an account executive, marketing coordinator, or sales consultant, Donald was interacting with people. It makes sense, then, that he would start a company called The Sales Evangelist. He started his business in 2015, and now his work life revolves around workshops, keynote presentations, and sales team training to both individuals and executives. Here today to talk about his business, the tools he can’t live without, and his book, is Donald Kelly. Donald, welcome to the show! 

[00:01:28] Donald Kelly: Hey, thanks so much for having me, Sanjay. Appreciate it.

[00:01:31] Sanjay Parekh: I'm excited to have you on because sales is like probably one of the most critical pieces for any entrepreneur, any founder when they're starting out, because that's the deal from day one. But before we get into that, and like all those little tips and tricks that you're going to share with us, I'd love to for you to give us a little bit about your background and what got you to this point in your career.

[00:01:56] Donald Kelly: Yeah, I started off as a kid. I grew up in Jamaica, moved to the States, and the reason why I bring that up because it's just, it's a pivotal part of my story and journey. My family always, everyone around my family, I always saw them selling. But I didn't know it was sales. It was just being a businessman, as we would say in the islands. And I came to the States with that mentality when I was a nine-year-old, that if you want to get an opportunity, you just go out and you start doing stuff, you create it. So, I started with selling candy, and then in springtime I was a person creating a little spring-cleaning business with friends and community people and trying to find opportunity. So, when I went to college, my buddies were like, you should consider a job in sales. And I'm like, what's sales? I just thought sales was being an entrepreneur. And then I eventually got into selling. Did Dish Network over the phone. Then from there, did some timeshare, eventually got into tech sales, and just loved it. And I started a podcast in 2012, which gained some attention. Got mentioned in Entrepreneur Magazine, Inc Magazine, HuffPost. And we leveraged that for some local publications as well. And it just grew the brand. And it was just me doing stuff on the side here, just coaching doing podcast and coaching in 2015. It just made sense to leave a full-time gig and to continue just coaching and guiding individuals and teams. And it's been a fun, fun process since. And little by little growing and we have some things in place to help us get to a higher level now. So, it's been fun.

[00:03:33] Sanjay Parekh: I want to step back for one second. You mentioned candy. I have this conversation with a lot of our guests. And I did this too, where it was basically candy bar arbitrage where I would take candy bars to school when I was a kid and sell them to other kids for more than what it cost me to buy them at the convenience store. And then for me at least, I would use that difference to fund the next round, but also, I would use the money to buy comic books. Did you do candy because you mentioned candy sales, did you do candy bar arbitrage like that? Or did you do something different?

[00:04:05] Donald Kelly: No, totally like that. What I did was Alberton's — big shout out to them — they would have sales every so often on Reese's bars. And at those times made, the Reese's cups, and those made it really lucrative because it was a big one with the two Reese's, sort of bigger ones. Yep. And they would sell them for I think it was like four for a buck. So, 25 cents each. So, I could at least sell that for 50 cents, and I can make my money back there that way. And then I would there's another convenience store just around a corner. And they had Laffy Taffy, but they sold it at a really, like reduced rate in comparison to most of the places. So, I could go there and buy them, and then I could sell those as well, for double the price. And those two are my main sources. And I contemplated the Sam's Club idea and getting the big box there, but I didn't need it. Because I was, thanks to my local Alberton's and the corner store. They were, they supplied my needs.

[00:05:04] Sanjay Parekh: Then again, you also have the inventory issue, right? You got to carry around this inventory which can make you a target for not necessarily other kids, but for teachers getting you in trouble.

[00:05:15] Donald Kelly: Both. And I'm grateful for Dane, one of my buddies, Dane. At one point everyone like knew me. I affiliated with everyone, and they knew that I was the source. So, you can't really get rid of your source guy. You can't mess up his stuff. But still yet, one folks were joking around one day, but Dane came in and said, he's a bigger guy. He said, hey, leave him alone. Stop messing with my buddy, my friend. And that's cool. So, people didn't mess with me. The business went on.

[00:05:43] Sanjay Parekh: There you go. There you go. It's always good to have protection for the business. Especially when you’re talking about elementary school. So, you said it sounds like there were entrepreneurs in your family as well. Talk about that a little bit. How early was it that you saw family members and what were they doing, entrepreneurially?

[00:06:05] Donald Kelly: Yeah. So, from a very young age, my mom and dad separated when I was a kid, but my dad in Jamaica was decent, I would say, well, he was a successful entrepreneur. He had a successful company and he also had like a shop area and a place where you can have outdoor events and concerts and had a blueprinting company. So, he was very entrepreneurial by nature, by that. So, it was in my blood because everyone in the community, all their friends, everyone that knew me and knew my dad, they were like, hey, you're going to be like your dad. You're going to inherit this empire and so forth. And I just kept going around that belief system.

Then my aunt, she came to the US, and she would buy products and service and, excuse me, buy products, consumable products, and consumer good products, bring them back to the to Jamaica and sell them at a margin. And then also my mom even dabbled in having a convenience store. If you're familiar with the islands or, most other countries, they have these convenience stores or little tiendas, so to speak, at their houses. And my mom had one of those. So, everywhere I saw, even like the neighbor friends who sold peanuts in the evenings and drove around, rode his this bicycle around and would roast peanuts. That's how you made money. It's not, let me go pull out his resume on Indeed and expect to find a job. You make something happen. So that was the culture that I grew up with.

[00:07:34] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Yeah. So fast forward, you're working and then, you launch this podcast and then you go full-time and pull the rip cord and you're doing this on your own. What were you thinking when you decided to make that decision? What scared you? What fears did you have? A lot of times people have those fears, and we don't talk about them necessarily, but we all have fears when we're doing this because it feels like there's no safety net. And I kind of argue against that a little bit. I feel like entrepreneurship is a safer way of working because nobody can fire you. But what fears did you have, when you got this going?

[00:08:18] Donald Kelly: So, we were in an interesting situation. I say we, because my wife and I had gotten married in 2013. Started a podcast in 2012. 2015, I decided to leave the full-time gig. But in that, the fear was that was, we are trying to figure out life. We want to maybe purchase a house; kids were going to be in the future. And we knew that was something that we're going to look at. My family, when we moved to the States, that was a one thing that was lingering in my head. And this, I know this is not a therapy session now, but since my mom and dad separated when I was a young kid, coming to the States, my mom was single parent and she just went along with, we had family here in West Palm and whatnot, went on her own eventually, and she had her place with us. And my stepdad came in the picture. He was abusive. Went out of the picture. Financially, we struggled. Mom ended up; we lost the apartment. I was in high school at this point. Younger brother and sister and I lived with a friend while they live with a family member.

And I just thought about that, Sanjay and I remember like being in that hopeless position. And I was like, what am I doing, when I was jumping out? Am I going to put my family, my wife, now, and I, in a situation like that where we could be homeless? And I would never want that to happen. So that fear, that nagged me. Could this work? Would people want to continue to buy services from me? And again, we did this, I made this decision because of several reasons. There was a guy that we followed, I can't remember his name now, this podcaster, but he said that he and his wife, when they did a business, when he did a business, any of his businesses, it was like she had several stipulations and she was like, one, you have to be making money, X amount of dollars, consistently. So, they figured out what that money was, as a family and it had to be consistent at least three months in a row. And then two, he had to have time to still take care of the deal's responsibility. Because they have three kids. They're like, I need help with the kids so you can get up whatever time you want, but I need you present at seven o'clock to help me get these kids out the gate at the school and I need you help by 2:30, 3 o'clock and whatever. And then after that you can do it. They had some rules that they put in place, but that financial one though of understanding, having money, being consistent and having savings, and we had that in place, whereas Christina and I were with two salaries, and I was in a sales salary as well plus commission, so it wasn't, we weren't hurting at all. So that front was, it was scary to think that something bad could happen, but we did have safety nets, quote unquote. So to speak.

[00:11:05] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. I very much feel your story. When I quit my job, when I came up with the idea that started my first company, it was a month before we closed on our first house. Then about nine months later, I quit and went all in on my first company. And I was mainly the only one making money. Actually, I think my wife was working at that point too. So, we had two, but then we went to one and a half salaries, really, because I was making less. But it really does drive you. And the point of me telling you that story is, in those early days, was that the thing that drove you? Like making sure that you don't lose the house, you don't end up in a worse situation. Or was it something else that drove you to make sure that you succeeded?

[00:12:00] Donald Kelly: Yeah, it was two parts. One, I wanted to make sure that we were taken care of financially and I never wanted that early experience from high school gave me that feeling. I never want my family to be in a situation like that again. It motivated me and pushed me, drive me. But two, I had a bigger vision than that though, because I wanted to get to that point where I was deemed as successful. In college, I was a big white boarder. I still am. But in college, I white boarded a career path and that I white boarded that I wanted to do a startup after a while being out in the business world, or go for my MBA, and to create this business and have it develop and grow. And literally it was at the time point, that's what started happening. So it was like the startup, let's not go for an MBA at this point. And it wasn't like, let's not say a startup, it was like a lifestyle business at that time. You know what I mean? Because it was taking care of our stuff and was doing well. And then I didn't really put business practices behind it, like real big business practices. But the point though was I had this vision of being an entrepreneur, being a successful entrepreneur. And that just kept me going and also just being able to be in a position where I can help my family, where we never have to worry, and so forth.

[00:13:26] Adam Walker: Support for this podcast comes from Hiscox, committed to helping small businesses protect their dreams since 1901. Quotes and information on customized insurance for specific risks are available at Hiscox.com. Hiscox, the business insurance experts.

[00:13:50] Sanjay Parekh: So, let's kind of change gears a little bit on this and talk about the other side of this. Starting your own thing like this is a lot of stress. And you end up working a lot. And how do you manage that for yourself between the business side of it and then family, friends, the other things that are in life that are important to you? How do you think about that? How do you manage the stress of it all?

[00:14:23] Donald Kelly: Yeah. And I don't think I'm perfect at this by far. And one of the things I do strive to do is exercise. That helps me out a lot. I know when I exercise, I get some of my best ideas as well, so that also reduces the stress level. Two, getting competent people to work with, people who can really help out and to solve problems. And one of the things that I look at is, can someone help solve a problem independent of me solving that problem for them. A philosophy that we strive by is, act rather than be acted upon. Can you do something? What can you do on your own, independent of me doing that? So that was an important part of it. And then also just like processes and procedures. What I saw that helped us to be able to have competent people to perform well in their role and to fulfill my expectation, which may be high, is the fact that I gave clear direction and we put processes in place so people can follow those directions and we can know what to do. And having that structure and that's where I said later on, we started putting structures. Having those structures later on in the company helped me to be able to lower the stress level and was able to help me to do the things that I was talented with, which is to go out and to be the face and to sell, so to speak, rather than being more handcuffed administrative responsibilities.

[00:15:48] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. You got to that point, but then you decided, hey, let's add one more thing to the pile. And you decided to write a book. And so, as if all the other stuff wasn't enough. So, what motivated you to write the book? What was the reasoning? Why did it make sense at that point in time? Because I'm sure a lot of our listeners are thinking the same thing because everybody, I think at some point, is thinking, I should write a book. What motivated you to actually pull the trigger and do it, and what was your hope in terms of outcome for you by writing that book?

[00:16:27] Donald Kelly: I’d probably said a deep motivation was — and I'm being very transparent here — but I'll probably say selfish. It's credibility and vanity. Like I want to be known in my industry as someone, and usually that has a book. A book just tells a lot. This person, they have a book. There's author Donald Kelly. When you introduce it, it was like, kind of cool to be able to hear that. So, I'm being transparent. If you think I'm vain, call me and help me out with it. So that was one part. And two, the other side of that was legacy, because I started this book probably in 2015, a little bit after I left the full-time gig. I was doing a lot of Toastmaster speaking and I went to the World Championship for public speaking and, all of this stuff. And my publishing company at that point started flirting with us and they said, all right, get us a manuscript. One of my buddies wrote a book with them, Sound Wisdom, and they introduced us, and we courted. But I started doing a manuscript and it was just purely, Sanjay, it was like one of those, any book you could find, like on a bookshelf for sales. And it was like, so later on I was part of a Mastermind and one of these guys is a book coach in the Mastermind, just it was four of us in this Mastermind. So, he helped us out, four of us, to write books. And it just made sense. So, I showed him, I was like, yeah, I started a book. Here's my manuscript. And he was like, you want my honest opinion? I was like, yeah. And he said, is this is not you. Throw it away. Let's do it over. And I was like, you're kidding me, man. I've been working on this thing for two years at this point. And he was like, I’m just telling you the truth.

So then started over the process and then he asked me that story. He was like, tell me your first time you made a sale, Donald. What was the first thing you sold? And I was like, I remember wanting to get this toy for Christmas. So, I started to try to sell mangoes in Jamaica. And then we started going down a path and he is oh my goodness, this is good. Let's flesh this out. So, we mind mapped that, and we developed Sell it Like a Mango at that point. And it was like, whatever you sell, whether it's books or cars or houses or software or any type of service, you're going to have multiple people selling the same exact product you are selling. Like I had in Jamaica, there were other people selling mangoes. It wasn't like the mangoes were coming from Indonesia, the mangoes were coming from the same region, but what made one person more successful than I was trying to sell mangoes? And it came back down to the individual and any software sales rep who was selling software, the same thing. You have people who are competitors, software is going to be pretty much the same thing. But what's going to separate you? And that's when the book developed.

So, legacy for Caleb, which is our young, our son. I was like, I want him to have something when, when it's all said and done, that, Dad had this. And then also with, for the business purposes as well, to be able to have that as a writing tool. And the third part is that I suck at writing. And I really wanted to prove that wrong, and I'm truthful with that, man. I just hated writing and I always told myself I want to, if I'm not good at it, let's figure out a way to improve on it. And, you don't have to do that with all of your weaknesses, but that's one area I wanted to improve on. I went to work and wrote it and got editors and editors edited before the editors edited it. And it turned out to be a good product. And since then, I've written with my co-author, two sales textbooks that are, the next one is being published right now. One of them is in universities, about 50 universities across the country, and a sales planner. So, somebody who sucked at writing, who can't write, in a few years had four publications. So go figure.

[00:20:16] Sanjay Parekh: So clearly it has helped your ability to write. Was there anything that you did in particular, or was it just the act of writing that improved it? Or was there some manual or book or something that you leveraged to help yourself improve your writing skills?

[00:20:33] Donald Kelly: Big shout out to Azul Tiran. You can find him on LinkedIn, but my, I can get you his full name too, but Azul, he was my book coach and he literally just worked with me and we just did it in bite-sized chunks. Brain mapped, broke it down into micro, micro bite-sized chunks and just worked on it little by little. And then to one of the hacks that I did, before I would write some and then I would go run and I had these zones of geniuses after mind mapping. And I just pulled out, thank you Google on my phone, Google doc, and with the talking feature of Google Voice there. And just voice transcribed and then cleaned it up when I got back to the house. Or sometimes when I would drive, I would literally speak out a section and then go back to the house. And just because if I did it in that sense, think about like a blog post and just do small pieces at a time. I could finish a section, several sections, make up a chapter, several chapters, make up a, eventually a book.

[00:21:42] Sanjay Parekh: So, I've got to ask you, so you're thinking of these things while you're out for a run. While you're running, are you listening to anything? Are you listening to music, podcasts or anything else? Or are you letting your mind just zone out?

[00:21:55] Donald Kelly: Yeah, both. I will zone out in music. So, I typically had my little playlist, and I would go and zone out in music or I would zone out listening to podcasts, like How I Built This or Business Wars. Those are my, I can do those two while I run and still think because ideas come and a lot of time with music, but rarely it was like, not listening to anything.

[00:22:21] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. I like it. So, let's switch to some advice for our listeners. Do you have any kind of technology, apps, systems that you've implemented that you'd recommend, that have helped you out tremendously as you scaled this business, as well as just, working on day-to-day life?

[00:22:43] Donald Kelly: Yeah, Nancy, my team member. I'm just kidding. No. Yeah, I have a team member. She's awesome. So, thanks Nancy. Maureen, another one of our team members are awesome too. But as far as on the serious side, as far as software is concerned, I’ll just come from the business side and then come back for sales. For the accounting, I try to do that on my own and then I torture my dear wife. So, sorry, Christina. The first year, trying to do the taxes at the end of the year, and the numbers and bookkeeping. Then I hired someone that I knew from church to help out and that was good, but the relationship side just made it funky where it wasn't just being done on time and it wasn't as professional as I needed to be.

But Bench came into the picture and that was amazing. So, Bench is great. That software is fantastic with doing all of the books, prepping everything for my accountant and end of the year. Trello. We're a big Trello shop in that sense. So, organizing projects for our marketing team and the sales, just operation task-wise. And then obviously Slack is there that we're big believers in, that we utilize. But with that idea of being on track and then we are a Google suite shop as well, so we, everything with the Google suite we utilize. So those things, operational-wise, kind of help us to be able to stay on track, stay organized, and to keep going. From the sales stack, there's a lot more that I can go into, but LinkedIn is probably the biggest secret weapon that I have on that front. And apollo.io where we utilize to send out our emails, gather information from our prospects, get direct dial phone numbers, and to interact. For CRM, Active Campaign is from the marketing standpoint and our sales to help out with some of the automation.

[00:24:41] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. Okay. I think those are great tips. Hopefully listeners will be able to catch some of those and start playing with some of those. But they can always call you, I guess, if they need help with sales coaching. But now let's do a little bit of a retrospective. So, you've been doing this now for a good number of years. Thinking back, what was something that happened that now you'd be like, man, I would've done that differently? Like, knowing what I know now what would you have done differently? And you can go back all the way to the mango selling days, if it applies to that, right? Like, I wouldn't have done mangoes. I would've done pineapples. Or you know, whatever it is. What would you have done differently?

[00:25:27] Donald Kelly: I would've sold. So, I'm a marketing discipline from college. As a salesperson, you give me a product, Sanjay, and I could sell your product and I can sell your service. When it came to the business, I made a fatal mistake, and that's why, again, I say at the beginning, I had the podcast, and the podcast was getting us opportunities where people would reach out and didn't have to do too much and got coaching clients and opportunities came from that. But I did not blitz out the gate with hunting new opportunities as much because I had stuff that were coming in and because of that, you had the zigs and the zags and the lulls, and we know that outbound grows companies.

It was very tempting to feel productive. And doing sales stuff. When I was doing the marketing pieces, spending time updating the website, putting like a little funnel in place or creating this type of little opt-ins and doing some of these things, they were needed. But did I need to do those? No, but I hid behind that and because it was, and ultimately again, therapy session, I felt inferior. And this is where it comes back with the book, right? So, everybody has those complexes, I felt inferior to some of these other folks in our industry who had big names and a little bit more gray hair and a little bit more expertise underneath their belts, so to speak. And I didn't feel that I could serve some of these big companies, so I didn't reach out to them. I just figured out a way for people to come to me. So, it was harder to sell myself, Sanjay, than it was to sell a product. I would sell software to some of the biggest government organizations as well as to some of the companies out there. But when it came to selling myself, I was self-conscious about that. Even though people were seeing amazing results from what I was doing. And that was a lot of that was what held me back. So, if I would go back and I would tell any entrepreneur, I tell people this all the time, people don't know what you have to offer until they know what you have to offer. So, you need to go out and you need to be the best salesperson and you can't delegate. You can consult with my company, and you  can get me to come and help you, but you need to be, especially if you're an entrepreneur, you need to be the number one salesperson in your organization because nobody's going to sell like you. And once I turned that turbo on and started selling, it made a world of difference.

[00:28:06] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. It sounds like you're the classic, what we always talk about in terms of a sales organization of people that are either farmers or they're hunters. And it sounds like you sat there being a farmer for a very long time until you realized that you needed to actually go out and be a hunter.

[00:28:23] Donald Kelly: Yeah. In my software sales role, I was a hunter. But then I came into the running the business and I just made excuses and saying, yeah, the first excuse was, yeah, I have opportunities coming in. False security. Things were coming in the gate, and two, I need to help run the business. But then three, ultimately, I was scared of selling myself. Yeah. And then four, when I finally did that, it just made differences.

[00:28:50] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah. And I think what you have lived through and experienced is not an unusual thing for a lot of entrepreneurs. Because we're worried about, it's not the right time yet to sell, right? It's too early. Everything is not perfect. And people will, people won't but because everything isn't perfect. And honestly, if it's not perfect and they're not buying, it's not because it's not perfect. It's because you're selling something they don't need. And even when it's imperfect, if you're selling something, people need they'll buy it. So, you need to just get out there and sell it.

[00:29:29] Donald Kelly: Man, no wiser words I've heard all day today.

[00:29:34] Sanjay Parekh: Let's get some wise words from you. So, we've got a lot of listeners that either have a side hustle or are thinking about launching a side hustle. And the ones that already have a side hustle are thinking about maybe going full-time into it. What advice would you give to somebody like that about going after and chasing their side hustle or making it into a full-time?

[00:29:57] Donald Kelly: First thing I would say, right now while you're in the side hustle, it's the perfect incubator. Because if you're generating some kind of revenue, go back to that example, I'll give you. Even I'll tell you the number, I don't care at that point, it was before we purchased, this was early days, we're renting my wife and I, and rent was like a little bit over a grand, it was like $1,200, $1,050, $1,100 bucks. She said if you could bring home $1,100 consistently every month, she was working as well from your side hustle, I know there's something there consistently and not just sporadic, once every, several months, you get a little gig and I was like, All right. That's doable. So started really focusing and started doing that, and that started coming in and then started getting the more of the coaching opportunities and speaking opportunities. And then I was traveling. She was like, all right. And I was using up all my vacation days, as a sales rep and doing the side hustle. And she was like, all right, something's got to give here. I want to go on vacation.

[00:30:54] Sanjay Parekh: She was like, I'm not going on vacation by myself. You're coming with me, so this is not going to work.

[00:31:01] Donald Kelly: So, you got to make sure, figure out what that number is. So that was a bare minimum. Everything else was, again, we had savings, we were debt free and so forth. But she said, take care of that. And I was like, all right, cool. We can do that. So set a certain number and then you can obviously increase on that number. Obviously, when we have, kids, that's a whole different number, that number would've changed drastically. But it was where we were at that time. So, it was okay to start with that, but find that number. Make it consistent. And then what's going to happen to make you go consistent is that you're going to need to put processes in place if you're going to be able to close deals consistently every month. And that's the next step. That's the fuel, right? Identify that goal, then start putting a process in place.

And then here's the other part, you're going to tell yourself, you don't have money for this, but find out what you need to do and what you don't have to do. And then those things that you don't have to. Get Upwork people to help you out. It's okay to do that. You can afford it because then you can focus more so on the things that's going to be money generating opportunities. And then a final part is that, is to, once you figure out and you have the benchmark that those numbers made, you have the processes in place and you can have some, a little bit of assistance to help you out with some of the things that you don't need to do. You just start going ham, go all in on selling before and don't make the mistake that I did. You need to make sure that you're generating good revenue again before you jump out, because as soon as you jump out, you're going to want to get that Donald position where you're like, oh, I got opportunities coming. I don't need to do anything. But you need to sell. You need to always sell. And if you can do that, sky's the limit. No, it's not. Sky’s beyond the limit. You have way more. You got space keeps going. So, there's infinite opportunities.

[00:32:49] Sanjay Parekh: So, keep shooting higher and higher. I like it. I like it.

[00:32:55] Donald Kelly: Shoot for Alpha Centauri, and then the next Galaxy, there's always somewhere else to go.

[00:32:59] Sanjay Parekh: There's always another star that's further away. So just keep going. Donald, this has been fantastic. Where can our listeners find and connect with you?

[00:33:09] Donald Kelly: Yeah, I'm on every platform as Donald C. Kelly, so you can find me on LinkedIn, is where I camp out the most, Donald C. Kelly, and you can find me on Instagram, Donald C. Kelly. If you want to get some free sales training tips and courses that we have and assets, go to the salesevangelist.com at the bottom of the page there you'll see some free training that we have, and we have a resource tab where you can get some stuff. And then we have a podcast with over 1600 episodes so you can find whatever your little heart and desire when it comes to sales on that.

[00:33:41] Sanjay Parekh: Whatever problem you've got, there's probably an episode there for you.

[00:33:43] Donald Kelly: It's probably a sale. Yeah, we probably got an episode around the sales problem for you.

[00:33:46] Sanjay Parekh: Yeah, yeah. That's great. Thanks again for coming on.

[00:33:50] Donald Kelly: Thank you. It's been a pleasure, and I would just tell all your audience members, if you're listening to this, you enjoy this podcast. The key here, I do a podcast myself. You got to go leave a rating review and take this link and share with one other person because Sanjay's going to tell you to do it. But when you get an outsider like me to come and tell you, it's a different story because you, I validate his message and it's true. So please take this link, share it, and leave an amazing review. It will go a very long way.

[00:34:17] Sanjay Parekh: I appreciate that.

[00:34:21] Sanjay Parekh: Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Side Hustle to Small Business Podcast, powered by Hiscox. To learn more about how Hiscox can help protect your small business through intelligent insurance solutions, visit hiscox.com. And if you have a story you want to hear on this podcast, please visit www.hiscox.com/shareyourstory. I'm your host Sanjay Parekh. You can find me on Twitter @sanjay or on my website at www.sanjayparekh.com.